Road King 2002 FLHRCI cam tensioners
 

Dear Friends!
I have of course heard about the problem in Twin Cam with the chain tensioners.
My bike is now 50000 miles more or less and i decided to have a look with the hope that someone was there before me...
unfortunetaly noone was there but fortunetaly I had a look in the very last moment inn my opinion.
There is some "meat" left in the front one... but the rear one... oh my God... I do not have dentist mirror but what I have managed to see
it is very very close to the end and brake...

Anyways job must be done.
Please let me know how to start with the subject.
I didn't want to touch the rocker boxes. would you recomend to change the push rods to the adjustable ones ?
How to do i right.
support will be highly appreciated. I do my bike myself as much as I can... and did change of the belt already and jobs like that.
some pictures from today
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...5331f96f5d.jpg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...4f13322ed6.jpg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...4edfad4fba.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...8365ee537c.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...a135544195.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...23b3595592.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...ecba760d22.jpg

I do like the adjustable push rods, both my baggers have them

What do you have to cut the existing ones in half.... they don't cut easily and your run of the mill bolt cutters (consumer grade) ain't gonna cut it.

replace the lifters with something better than HD units, make sure to soak them in oil and pump them before installing

can you retro fit a hydralic tensioner like the later 07 and up TC's?

I'm glad you looked. Even though the front one doesn't have a ton of wear, it's heavily pitted, which IHMO means it's getting brittle.. Much easier & cheaper to replace them BEFORE they fail....

There are four main ways to update them. The cheapest is to replace the OEM tensioner pads with Cyco brand tensioner pads. Also, Twin Power sells replacement spring cam tensioners with Cyco pads, which are an easy switch. If you have access to the special tool, you can remove the rear tensioner without even removing the cams from the cam plate... The Cyco pad replacements are getting good reviews with many already at 50K miles on them, without the wear seen on OEM pads...

I like to go through the rocker boxes when doing cam chest upgrades... It's just a little time and a few gaskets... much cheaper than buying adjustable pushrods for like $200....

I would strongly urge to you to get the HD Factory Service manual for your year/model bike before diving into this.... With the manual and a few youtube videos (S&S and FuelMoto have a some good ones) it's really not that hard to do you if you basic mechanical skills....

Good luck with your cam plate update... keep us posted and don't be afraid to ask specific questions as you go through the process....

Yes, you can actually add an '07+ cam plate, pump, and hydraulic tensioners to an early 88". You need to round up the parts (there are lists all over the internet) and you will also get/use the newer cam sprockets and chains They use the better o-ring roller chains between the cams instead fo the OEM link style Morse silent chains. The link chains are suspected by many to assist with the fast wear and premature failure of the spring cam tensioners...

The big caveat to the '07+ cam plate upgrade is the different size of the inner cam bearings between the early twin cams and the '07+ twin cams. So this upgrade requires the need to purchase "conversion cams". They are designed to fit the '07+ cam plate, and the pre '07 inner cam bearings.... That adds to parts' costs and the need for a new tune.... It's an excellent upgrade if you are considering new cams anyways...

Your options are:

#1 Replace with factory parts only.
#2 Replace with upgraded tensioners.
#3 Replace with hydraulic tensioners and cam plate, oil pump.
#4 Replace with 07 and up hydraulic tensioners, cam plate, oil pump, and conversion cams.
#5 Replace with gear drive.

Each have pros and cons.

Inner cam bearings is a must for all options.
Lifters are recommended.
Other options include adjustable pushrods.

You will have to educate yourself regarding these choices, and what is right for you. There are various opinions here and not everyone will agree.
My choice is #4. Before that I went with #1.

I don’t like spring tensioners. The spring can break. Ask me how I know.

Thank you very very much for all the information.
I have Claymer service manual already which I already use.
I get myself fully prepared before I will start.
I have ordered already the blocking tool for the cam gears.
Basically I make up to 5000 km per year due to the weather here. so it is more or less 3200 miles.
I change all oils and filters every year before Winter.
When it comes to the solution I think that I will go into options no 1 - replace the components with new parts.
I have these ones avaliable here in europe

Tensioner external

https://malyhd.pl/rozrzad-nosek/1217...cam&results=73

They come from mentioned before twin power company and shall do the thing.

aditionally the set of gaskets from James gaskets
https://malyhd.pl/uszczelki-silnika/...am&results=355

having this there is just my time on top of that.
this basically closes within approx. 200 USD which is not too bad.
and with me making 3000 miles per year shall last for more or less 10 years ;)
if you have any additional recomendations, remarks, hints - please let me know.
I will keep you posted.

P.S. Strange thing... this bike belonged to my Father R.I.P....I could not sleep tonight due to this tensioners...and he came to me in my sleep when finally I fell a sleep more or less 4 am - his words were... "OK, lets start and do this"... so the message is clear...

I did this last winter on an ‘01 TC88, I found this UTube video helpful.

The video doesn’t show this, but you will need to remove the gas tank too.

Just replace the shoes and check the oil pump for wear and of course the inner cam bearings.

It's a 2002. Your good for 50k more miles and 20 years.

Why spin wheels. And forget the silly SE upgrade . It's just Harley screwing you again. It leaves the inner link chain. That what never stops wearing.

The roller chain and it's not an o-ring one (doesn't need to be in a in an oil bath lubrication) once grooved in rolls and stops wearing.

On a link chain, on the inner one, if you can see witness marks from the pins hitting, the shoe is toast.

I got the movie and I am going to use it.
I am aware about the fuel tank. I have EFI engine, so I also know that the preasure from the pipes need to go out once I will unplug the proper wiring.

I will prepare myself properly.
just wondering if it is better to replace the complete tensioners instead of the shoes only.
basically i do not have the tool to remove the pins from the tensioners, but somehow I would find the way to use old springs - it is not rocket sience but the thing is that maybe it is better to have a new spring as well as the existing ones may be used already, and material "tired"

You will need to buy the proper tools to change tensioners. The new ones from Harley Davidson come with springs as a unit.
You also need proper tools to change the inner cam bearings. Incidentally this is where you should deviate from stock and use the full complement needle bearings, instead of the caged needle bearings. There are pictures on this forum of the differences. Maybe someone can repost them.
Adjustable push rods can be used also, it is more expense but does make it easier. Also I like them because you can set them to the exact length you need for your lifters. And yes with your bike I would buy new lifters.

As I already said there are many opinions here, as you can see. Even from me.

Very true.
I see already that for inner cam bearings it will not be nice and easy without the proper tool/plate.
thing is that I could machine it myself at the shop. but without proper dimensions it may be risky.
New lifters...ehh... the deeper I dig in, the more and more stuff I will discover most probably.
I have checked with the local Harley dealer - thay came with the list of components that includes chains, tensioners, bearings, sealings with the price of approx 1000 USD. as per below.
5607-99 chain

39965-99 shoe

39964-99A – tensioner

39954-99A – tensioner

25610-99 - chain

17045-99D – service kit – sealings + bearings
are the chains a must as well ?

Just changing the shoes leaves the inner link chain also. Except the Harley upgrade will now use hydraulic tensioners that put less pressure on the chain and also does not have the binding action of the backward inner tensioner.

As you can see it starts to add up. That is one reason why people upgrade to the other options. Like a better oil pump and cam plate.

Were I to do it again today, I’d be looking hard at going with a gear drive. If you’ve ever considered a cam change, this is a good time for it.

The chain drives (old and new) have quite a bit of drag. The early design has significantly more drag.

I happened to go with the cyclo shoe change myself. An interesting exercise, with some costs due to the tools necessary for it. It works, but leaves the same high drag on the inner chain.

Buy a manual.

I would just pull heads and put new gaskets in. Cost of push rods, buying bolt cutters, and no risk of ever coming loose. Just drop in.

Good time to bore 95, cam, and port.

Last year of timken can measure runout and go gear. Retro kit not bad either.

The better pads, depending how much you ride the bike.

I have decided to go by the book this time,
disassembly rocker boxes and take the push rods out.
will take some time but still.
when it comes to up-grade... it is quite costly comparing just to the tensioners exchange.

If doing the work yourself,I wouldn't think more costly. Top end gaskets are under a $100 I believe.

I don’t see any need to replace either of the chains, the chains, if anything, are smoother now and likely less abrasive on the new shoes.

The TP tensioner kit is what you want, and a gasket kit.
I replaced the inner cam bearings in mine.

I don’t know that new lifters are necessary.

There has been discussion about replacing lifters since you don't have replaceable tappet blocks on tCs.

For me, I like to mimize labor and do whatever I can when open. So I've done mine twice on 90k

Other bike 70k I haven't, because never had open.

Get your gaskets from Cometic. If you are doing the work the non cutting of push rods is the way to go.

Cometic has different tq sequence than manual for head bolts, and they don't oring that factpory does on one of the cover gaskets. I wouldn't do this without a manual.

I believe the OP is just removing the top rocker cover to expose the rocker arms and remove the push rods from the top....

I prefer Cometic MLS head gaskets, but the HD rocker cover gaskets are actually quite good...

So are the Cyco SIL (silicone bead) rocker cover gaskets.. I have used both on Twin Cam bikes and have reused the same gaskets 3 times with no leaks...

Since HD stopped allowing me to buy parts online at a discount, I have started buying Cyco gaskets online to stock up. I have found the Cyco gaskets to be very good, and cheaper than HD gaskets from a dealer parts counter... the Cyco breather assembly gaskets look identical to the gaskets that come in new HD breather assembly kits...

But I still use Cometic MLS for all my head gaskets...

Ok,
Thank you all very much for the comments and support!
I really appreciate everything which I can get from more experienced Bikers.
I hope you will support me to go through this task.
I have the first "bump" already.
I have taken off the exhaust pipes.
but I didn't removed the gas tank first...then I have educated myself more in regards the tank removal, and on EFI models they mentioned in manual about the "depressurizing" procedure.
I have the cross over section, and I know how to drain the fuel from the tank.
but is it really necessary to depressurize? I saw on some movies that it is only to avoid the spilling of some fuel during disconnection of the fuel line from the tank.
my idea is to wrap it around during taking off, and there shall be no mess.
Please let me know and we will take it from there further ;)
thank you in advance.

You must run roller chains on both inner and outer if you use hydraulic tensioners. The SE kit didn't change the cams. So only the outer tensioner got the roller chain since the kit came with a sprocket for that one.

The other cam's sprocket is part of the cam.

The only reason I said to stick with just shoes was economy..

Here is what happens with a link chain on a hydraulic tensioner. With a roller chain, it grooves in and rolls, and wear stops. It's not the pressure, it's the chain. That last picture has 90K on it.

Just a suggestion. Just an opinion.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...f44aa340cf.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...419d502117.jpg

For the inner cam bearings which one you guys recommend?
In the shop where I am going to buy gaskets and all the rest they have Fueling bearings avaliable.
https://malyhd.pl/rozrzad-nosek/7664...du-cs-184.html
but the tool to take them off was designed for Koyo B148
from this thread
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/twin-...ring-tool.html
but logically if the cam shafts need to fit both type of bearings, so the tool shall work for both Koyo and Fuel.
thing is , which one are more reliable.
thanks

Makes me glad I went with the 07 and up cam plate and conversion cams.
Thanks for the pictures.

Are you wondering about the best tool or best inner cam bearing?

The Koyo B148 inner cam bearings are the same size as the INA Brand OEM 148 inner cam bearings... just a better design...

If someone is selling a B148 replacement bearing for a twin cam, it is most likely a captive roller bearing (Koyo) rather than an OEM style caged bearing (INA Brand)... Just make sure you are getting a captive roller bearing sized for your installation, B148.

There are tools set up for B148 inner cam bearings (88" engines), tools set up for B168 inner cam bearings (96"+ engines), and some will sell a tool that has different collets and bearing drivers with one plate, so it can handle both size bearings...

Jim's Tools makes quality tools... and you pay for that. There are some cheaper tools that should work fine for a garage mechanic who may only do this bearing change a couple times...

I bought the Heartland (same as MBS Manufacturing) Inner cam bearing remover/installer. I liked the window at the top of the plate so I could see what is going on behind the plate. I have used it 4 times with no issues..

thanks for the replay
I asked about the inner bearings.
if Fueling company is ok

I will look for Koyo B-148 with no cage design to be sure I got the right one

.

Yes Fueling makes some good products.... but....

They don't make inner cam bearings. On their site, you can see the "Koyo B-148" on the bearings in their photo... They want $28.95 for two Koyo B-148 bearings...

You can get two Koyo B-148 bearings on Amazon for $15.00....

So shop around, a Koyo B-148 bearing, is a Koyo B-148 Bearing....

Thanks a lot.
this is what I am going to do.
Thanks to the help of guys here in Poland, I will have the tool for disassembly of the inner tensioner, which is going to make my life much easier...great people those Bikers ;)

I am going to order as follows.:
2x koyo bearing as per below - no cage, no inner ring
looks like the photo does not show this bearing but the spec is as follows

• inner diameter - 22,22 mm
• external diameter- 28,58 mm
• width/ height- 12,7 mm
• manufacturer - KOYO
• dimms - 22.22 x 28.58 x 12.7
• type of product - needle bearing with no internal ring
• cage- no

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...0ce3347d4e.png

Aditionaly
set of seals from James gasket
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...0c7bf3bb7d.png
External and internal tensioner from Twin Power
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...8598cae1eb.png
Twin Power ex tensioner
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...b549d705da.png
Twin Power internal tensioner
I also have the chain locking tool already at home.
and 2 new exhoust sealings.

Is there anything else you would think of ?
I was not planning to disassembly the oil pump.

You sure that inner cam bearing is designed for a Harley? That picture is a sealed face one with an external groove. If that groove has a hole in it, it's designed for a system that has a pressure lubricant system.

The seal is designed to keep out trash. Lot of Toyota's transmissions have sealed bearings to keep out trash.

Problem is TCs cam bearings are lubricated from the crank splash. Even though they are designed dry sump, there is splash. The early Softails like mine have a lip in the bottom of the case keeps oil level of a inch and a half before it spills over into the hole for the scavenger oil pump to return it.

Of course while running, that small amount of oil is just spinning but it's used for cooling and splash lubrication.

I searched that and I see a lot of clones. Some on ebay as cheap as $6.95. None have the groove like your picture. Be careful of your source especially since you are re-engineering it now. I don't do that.

thanks for the hint.
the thing is that supplier informs that the picrture is just for view purpose only, actual product may differ,
from the 100% sure source I can buy this one from Fueling company
this is the store that sels HD parts only
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.hdf...59cb497b84.png
https://malyhd.pl/rozrzad-nosek/7664...du-cs-184.html

Maybe it is more safe to buy them there

P.S. The one from the 1st picture is on the way... but it was not very expensive, approx 20 USD for both.
once I will receive them, I can make a picture to double check.

youtube videos and forums were a big help when doing this. i dont have a factory service manual.

no.
pull the heads to get the pushrods out...? dont have to.
i agree about the chains. i didnt do new lifters on mine and its been fine for over 20k miles.
are we talking head gaskets or rocker box cover gaskets?

OP, when i did mine, i went with Cyco shoes, took the OEM shoes off and put the cyco ones on the original springs. i also went through the top taking the gas tank off and rocker box covers. wasnt that bad. did inner cam bearings too, wasnt that bad either with the tool. did a cam upgrade while i was in there because now was the time. also, might want to look into a Baisley spring for the oil pump while youre there. it bumps up oil pressure a bit and its not expensive. best of luck.

thanks for the hints... still wondering if it makes sense to buy complete tensioners or just replace the shoes.
there is local manufacturer that makes them here, and has a great opinions of the guys that used them already. barely touched after 18k miles

Did this on an 01 RKC and also added Rocker Lockers, since the engine had a lot of top end noise. You seem very aware mechanically, but a friendly reminder to keep the lifters and push rods in the same orientation if you are keeping the current lifters and cams. Good luck, I also used the Cyco pads, they seem good. For the oil pump, if you keep the current one check online about the bypass valve spring. It can give you a little more pressure if you replace it. Of course flow is more important than pressure with the twin cams, but still good to consider.

JT

I would buy the tensioners with the shoes already on.
2 reasons, You don’t have to buy the tools to put the shoes on, and you get new springs.

Thanks guys,
new springs are basically the reason I am more leaning to buy the complete set of tensioners - will do that!
thanks a lot.
Tank is taken off already.
maybe I will manage to take off at least one rocker today...basicaly it is 7:30 PM here ;)

will keep you posted