In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
In-progress Report of Stage 1 Upgrade (2007 FXSTC)[/b]
Sorry this is so long. Hopefully it will be helpful to some of you. I learned so much on this site over the last couple months doing research, so I thought an installation report with pics (hopefully) would be of use. I am an adequate (at best) wrench, so this perspective might help those with little to no experience.
Background[/b]
I have a 2007 Softail Custom, picked up in Oct, 1800 miles, only accessory mods so far. Bike is great, but I’m missing that deep rumble that I expected from a Harley. After doing a lot of research here, I knew I needed to do new pipes/slip-ons, A/C, and tuner. I had it narrowed down to Rush slip-ons or a 2-into-1 system. I put a $450 bid on some Rineharts (retail $620) and won the pipes for $405 [8D]. A couple days later I called Fuelmoto and ordered a Big Sucker and PCIII. I also decided to try the installation myself [
].
Rinehart 2-into-1 system[/b]
The pipes arrived last Wed and I installed them Thurs night faster than expected. As far as the product, I will give it a 8 out of 10 so far (haven’t cranked it up yet). Everything in the kit was there (thought I was missing a lock washer, but I found it later). Only problem was one of the hose clamps (for the heat shields) was broke, but I used one off the old pipes – no problem. The directions, however, were not updated for 2007s. The pipes fit and had the O2 Sensor ports, but the instructions didn’t address them (O2 sensors) at all, and some of the frame/mounting bracket directions were wrong.
Some on this site have complained about machine marks on their new pipes. Unfortunately mine had marks as well. I am pretty sure now that the marks are intentional. They are in a location to be hidden by the heat shields, and they allow the pipe clamps to get a better grip on the pipes than on smooth chrome. So no issues with the machine marks.
One of the most difficult decisions I had was which gaskets to use: stock or SE. This board is remarkably split on this topic. The stock gaskets are much thicker and are easier to get a seal. But the material can get ‘squished’ into the head restricting flow. The SEs are much cleaner, but some have reported trouble getting a good seal. Well the Rineharts came with gaskets (James Exhaust) so no decision necessary.
***continued***
Sorry this is so long. Hopefully it will be helpful to some of you. I learned so much on this site over the last couple months doing research, so I thought an installation report with pics (hopefully) would be of use. I am an adequate (at best) wrench, so this perspective might help those with little to no experience.
Background[/b]
I have a 2007 Softail Custom, picked up in Oct, 1800 miles, only accessory mods so far. Bike is great, but I’m missing that deep rumble that I expected from a Harley. After doing a lot of research here, I knew I needed to do new pipes/slip-ons, A/C, and tuner. I had it narrowed down to Rush slip-ons or a 2-into-1 system. I put a $450 bid on some Rineharts (retail $620) and won the pipes for $405 [8D]. A couple days later I called Fuelmoto and ordered a Big Sucker and PCIII. I also decided to try the installation myself [
].Rinehart 2-into-1 system[/b]
The pipes arrived last Wed and I installed them Thurs night faster than expected. As far as the product, I will give it a 8 out of 10 so far (haven’t cranked it up yet). Everything in the kit was there (thought I was missing a lock washer, but I found it later). Only problem was one of the hose clamps (for the heat shields) was broke, but I used one off the old pipes – no problem. The directions, however, were not updated for 2007s. The pipes fit and had the O2 Sensor ports, but the instructions didn’t address them (O2 sensors) at all, and some of the frame/mounting bracket directions were wrong.
Some on this site have complained about machine marks on their new pipes. Unfortunately mine had marks as well. I am pretty sure now that the marks are intentional. They are in a location to be hidden by the heat shields, and they allow the pipe clamps to get a better grip on the pipes than on smooth chrome. So no issues with the machine marks.
One of the most difficult decisions I had was which gaskets to use: stock or SE. This board is remarkably split on this topic. The stock gaskets are much thicker and are easier to get a seal. But the material can get ‘squished’ into the head restricting flow. The SEs are much cleaner, but some have reported trouble getting a good seal. Well the Rineharts came with gaskets (James Exhaust) so no decision necessary.
***continued***
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
Continued***
[/b]
Removal of old pipes[/b]
I figured I would have more trouble removing the old than installing the new. Mainly I was dreading trying to get the inside rear cylinder header nut off. The hardest part, however, was getting off the friggin O2 sensors. I used vice grips, and got the front one off after using some elbow grease. I couldn’t get the rear one off at all. I even removed the whole air cleaner to give myself more room. Since I was going to install the Big Sucker soon, that wasn’t a big deal. Finally I got so pissed off I just cut the wire.[:@] Not really an issue since the PCIII will eliminate the O2s anyway. Even after the whole pipe system was off I couldn’t remove the dang thing. I later learned that there are sockets just for O2 sensors, so that might help some of you avoid an hour of frustration. Here is a pic of the front O2 sensor after removal.
The head nuts were not so difficult. I used a 4 inch extension and a small ½ inch socket to get to the inside rear nut. None of them were on too tight (incorrectly??), and the only other problem was the front left nut. The pipe and front frame made it awkward to get to. I ended up using a 2-inch extension with an elbow joint.
A lot of people on this board had difficulty finding the old gaskets. Not me – they were huge and hard to miss. Got them out with a knife and screwdriver. Here are what they look like off (next post).
The cir-clips were a bit of a pain even with snap ring pliers. There wasn’t much of a place to get a grip on them. Harder to get on the new pipes than off the old, though. Of course at this point I was 3 beers into the thing
, so maybe that was the problem.
***continued***
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/C29E619B4E8C4C9885347702218F5ED0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/189C198690FB42B1B41AAE60332AF535.jpg[/IMG]
[/b]
Removal of old pipes[/b]
I figured I would have more trouble removing the old than installing the new. Mainly I was dreading trying to get the inside rear cylinder header nut off. The hardest part, however, was getting off the friggin O2 sensors. I used vice grips, and got the front one off after using some elbow grease. I couldn’t get the rear one off at all. I even removed the whole air cleaner to give myself more room. Since I was going to install the Big Sucker soon, that wasn’t a big deal. Finally I got so pissed off I just cut the wire.[:@] Not really an issue since the PCIII will eliminate the O2s anyway. Even after the whole pipe system was off I couldn’t remove the dang thing. I later learned that there are sockets just for O2 sensors, so that might help some of you avoid an hour of frustration. Here is a pic of the front O2 sensor after removal.
The head nuts were not so difficult. I used a 4 inch extension and a small ½ inch socket to get to the inside rear nut. None of them were on too tight (incorrectly??), and the only other problem was the front left nut. The pipe and front frame made it awkward to get to. I ended up using a 2-inch extension with an elbow joint.
A lot of people on this board had difficulty finding the old gaskets. Not me – they were huge and hard to miss. Got them out with a knife and screwdriver. Here are what they look like off (next post).
The cir-clips were a bit of a pain even with snap ring pliers. There wasn’t much of a place to get a grip on them. Harder to get on the new pipes than off the old, though. Of course at this point I was 3 beers into the thing
, so maybe that was the problem.***continued***
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/C29E619B4E8C4C9885347702218F5ED0.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/189C198690FB42B1B41AAE60332AF535.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
Install of new system[/b]
My initial intention was just to remove the old and familiarize myself with how the new ones would go on, but I ended up doing the whole install that night. Overall a 4 hour, 6 beer job; I was only working off and on, though, between dinner, TV, kids, etc.
Since the directions didn’t accurately cover the frame/mounting bracket, I was worried about this part. But the new mounting bracket mounted directly to the old holes in the frame, and the install was much easier than described in the instructions for the 2006 and earlier models. The hardest part was getting the header pipes matched up to the heads. Since they fit perfectly, it was difficult getting both into place between the engine and other obstructions. I ended up lifting them up from below and getting the rear ones in place (screwed the nuts on just to keep them in place). Then I had to bend the front pipe a bit to get the flange around the corner of the engine. The final task was maneuvering the cir-clip/flange assembly around the pipe elbow to match up with the head. I ended up tapping the flange with a screwdriver and hammer.
The pipes seemed to fit closer to the bike than the old ones. Also the 2-into-1 collector is right in front of the transmission case. Seems to be OK, but it sure will be a pain to get to the transmission if required. See pic below. The heat shields weren’t too bad either. The directions recommended installing the rear one before putting the pipes on and the front one after. This seemed to work OK.
The muffler was a very tight fit onto the collector. I ended up using a rubber mallet to tap it in and rotate it to the right spot. The grooves fit right into the installed mounting bracket, so that wasn’t an issue. The instructions recommended the use of silicon, but how to apply wasn’t clear. I didn’t have any at the time, anyway, so I haven’t used silicon yet. I assume they meant to put between the muffler and collector. With the tight fit and the clamp, I think I have a good seal. We will see once I am able to test the system.
Now my last issue (for now) has to do with torque. I was able to fairly easily torque the head nuts to 18-22 ft lbs as recommended, but I am concerned that I haven’t yet ‘sealed’ the gaskets. The supplied gaskets seem smaller than the old ones, so I’m not sure I got them sealed yet. Something else to wait for until testing.
I haven’t got my Big Sucker and PCIII yet, and I am going to wait for them before I crank it up. Also I have to plug the O2 sensor holes. The next post will cover prep for PCIII install. Here are some pics of pipes so far.
***continued***
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/87D29355E4F940F2A4ED6ADE5E40ABF4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/16D42AABD7DF4153A5E48D406E6EF0BC.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/702A1C217E9046E2A668E368ADA40A78.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/CA8DD5A22DB943908627F2A1B52B9E82.jpg[/IMG]
My initial intention was just to remove the old and familiarize myself with how the new ones would go on, but I ended up doing the whole install that night. Overall a 4 hour, 6 beer job; I was only working off and on, though, between dinner, TV, kids, etc.
Since the directions didn’t accurately cover the frame/mounting bracket, I was worried about this part. But the new mounting bracket mounted directly to the old holes in the frame, and the install was much easier than described in the instructions for the 2006 and earlier models. The hardest part was getting the header pipes matched up to the heads. Since they fit perfectly, it was difficult getting both into place between the engine and other obstructions. I ended up lifting them up from below and getting the rear ones in place (screwed the nuts on just to keep them in place). Then I had to bend the front pipe a bit to get the flange around the corner of the engine. The final task was maneuvering the cir-clip/flange assembly around the pipe elbow to match up with the head. I ended up tapping the flange with a screwdriver and hammer.
The pipes seemed to fit closer to the bike than the old ones. Also the 2-into-1 collector is right in front of the transmission case. Seems to be OK, but it sure will be a pain to get to the transmission if required. See pic below. The heat shields weren’t too bad either. The directions recommended installing the rear one before putting the pipes on and the front one after. This seemed to work OK.
The muffler was a very tight fit onto the collector. I ended up using a rubber mallet to tap it in and rotate it to the right spot. The grooves fit right into the installed mounting bracket, so that wasn’t an issue. The instructions recommended the use of silicon, but how to apply wasn’t clear. I didn’t have any at the time, anyway, so I haven’t used silicon yet. I assume they meant to put between the muffler and collector. With the tight fit and the clamp, I think I have a good seal. We will see once I am able to test the system.
Now my last issue (for now) has to do with torque. I was able to fairly easily torque the head nuts to 18-22 ft lbs as recommended, but I am concerned that I haven’t yet ‘sealed’ the gaskets. The supplied gaskets seem smaller than the old ones, so I’m not sure I got them sealed yet. Something else to wait for until testing.
I haven’t got my Big Sucker and PCIII yet, and I am going to wait for them before I crank it up. Also I have to plug the O2 sensor holes. The next post will cover prep for PCIII install. Here are some pics of pipes so far.
***continued***
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/87D29355E4F940F2A4ED6ADE5E40ABF4.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/16D42AABD7DF4153A5E48D406E6EF0BC.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/702A1C217E9046E2A668E368ADA40A78.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/CA8DD5A22DB943908627F2A1B52B9E82.jpg[/IMG]
Thread Starter
|
Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
In between arrival of parts[/b]
OK no arrival of Big Sucker and PCIII (hopefully by Mon). So I am going to prep the battery area for the PCIII. I downloaded directions from their web site. I also downloaded Big Sucker instructions – that looks very easy. The PCIII instructions looked easy as well, until I actually tried.
Could Harley have made the battery harder to get to? There is so much crammed in there, it was very difficult to get to the terminal bolts. I unplugged almost everything moved as much as I could out of the way, and I still couldn’t get a socket on those freakin bolts. I used my gerber pliers and was able to move them millimeter by millimeter. Believe it or not it took about an hour just to get the battery off. I guess I was overconfident after the success of the pipe install, and the 4-5 beers didn’t help either.
Now the directions call for the PCIII connectors to fit in the battery compartment, but that’s going to be a tight fit. The thing might arrive with a bigger tray and/or Velcro fasteners to help secure it. I guess we will have to see. The PCIII itself is supposedly going to go under the rear fender in front of the mud guard (where the alarm is). There isn’t much room to maneuver under there (between the tire and fender. I have seen pics of some people who have mounted the PCIII in the battery area with the connectors. I might try that.
Next I removed the O2 sensor cables. They came off rather easily. One is under the battery tray and the other is the front above the vent area. See pic. I should get O2 eliminators with the PCIII when it arrives.
Next I tried to find plugs for the O2 sensor holes. After reading the thread below, I went to Autozone and looked for oil pan drain plugs. None were the right size. Next went to Home Depot. The O2 sensor threads fit in a ¾ inch test nut, but the only bolts they had this size were 3 inches and bigger. So I ended up ordering the ones from Verocious Motorsports. Only $2.55 each, but 7 bucks shipping.
Thread on O2 plugs: https://www.hdforums.com/m_1142711/tm.htm
So now I am just waiting. Good thing it is snowing or I might want to put the bike back together and give it a test.
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/E70E48E53E8948F89337C92C2310E525.jpg[/IMG]
OK no arrival of Big Sucker and PCIII (hopefully by Mon). So I am going to prep the battery area for the PCIII. I downloaded directions from their web site. I also downloaded Big Sucker instructions – that looks very easy. The PCIII instructions looked easy as well, until I actually tried.
Could Harley have made the battery harder to get to? There is so much crammed in there, it was very difficult to get to the terminal bolts. I unplugged almost everything moved as much as I could out of the way, and I still couldn’t get a socket on those freakin bolts. I used my gerber pliers and was able to move them millimeter by millimeter. Believe it or not it took about an hour just to get the battery off. I guess I was overconfident after the success of the pipe install, and the 4-5 beers didn’t help either.
Now the directions call for the PCIII connectors to fit in the battery compartment, but that’s going to be a tight fit. The thing might arrive with a bigger tray and/or Velcro fasteners to help secure it. I guess we will have to see. The PCIII itself is supposedly going to go under the rear fender in front of the mud guard (where the alarm is). There isn’t much room to maneuver under there (between the tire and fender. I have seen pics of some people who have mounted the PCIII in the battery area with the connectors. I might try that.
Next I removed the O2 sensor cables. They came off rather easily. One is under the battery tray and the other is the front above the vent area. See pic. I should get O2 eliminators with the PCIII when it arrives.
Next I tried to find plugs for the O2 sensor holes. After reading the thread below, I went to Autozone and looked for oil pan drain plugs. None were the right size. Next went to Home Depot. The O2 sensor threads fit in a ¾ inch test nut, but the only bolts they had this size were 3 inches and bigger. So I ended up ordering the ones from Verocious Motorsports. Only $2.55 each, but 7 bucks shipping.
Thread on O2 plugs: https://www.hdforums.com/m_1142711/tm.htm
So now I am just waiting. Good thing it is snowing or I might want to put the bike back together and give it a test.
[IMG]local://upfiles/19010/E70E48E53E8948F89337C92C2310E525.jpg[/IMG]
Supporter
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,723
Likes: 233
From: Altoona, Pa.
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
Hey, thanks for the time to post all of this. Will come in handy to many of us. I'm also working towards to Stage one upgrade. Have put on the SE II onto my 06 Deuce. Next wil come the air part. Wondering what brought you to the Big Sucker over perhaps the HD Screaming E intake or Hypercharger from Kuryakyn? DOn't know a ton about this but figure I can pic a few brains for a while. Thanks. Looking forward to posts on the rest of the upgrade.
May our Moderator Rest in Peace
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 11,386
Likes: 35
From: Rochester, NY
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
ORIGINAL: Pilzner
In between arrival of parts[/b]
Next I tried to find plugs for the O2 sensor holes. After reading the thread below, I went to Autozone and looked for oil pan drain plugs. None were the right size. Next went to Home Depot. The O2 sensor threads fit in a ¾ inch test nut, but the only bolts they had this size were 3 inches and bigger. So I ended up ordering the ones from Verocious Motorsports. Only $2.55 each, but 7 bucks shipping.
In between arrival of parts[/b]
Next I tried to find plugs for the O2 sensor holes. After reading the thread below, I went to Autozone and looked for oil pan drain plugs. None were the right size. Next went to Home Depot. The O2 sensor threads fit in a ¾ inch test nut, but the only bolts they had this size were 3 inches and bigger. So I ended up ordering the ones from Verocious Motorsports. Only $2.55 each, but 7 bucks shipping.
Thanks for the information, sounds like your having fun, between beers, guess I'll stick togetting a pair of slip-on's.
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 109
Likes: 4
From: Stafford, VA
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
ORIGINAL: cdestuck
Hey, thanks for the time to post all of this. Will come in handy to many of us. I'm also working towards to Stage one upgrade. Have put on the SE II onto my 06 Deuce. Next wil come the air part. Wondering what brought you to the Big Sucker over perhaps the HD Screaming E intake or Hypercharger from Kuryakyn? DOn't know a ton about this but figure I can pic a few brains for a while. Thanks. Looking forward to posts on the rest of the upgrade.
Hey, thanks for the time to post all of this. Will come in handy to many of us. I'm also working towards to Stage one upgrade. Have put on the SE II onto my 06 Deuce. Next wil come the air part. Wondering what brought you to the Big Sucker over perhaps the HD Screaming E intake or Hypercharger from Kuryakyn? DOn't know a ton about this but figure I can pic a few brains for a while. Thanks. Looking forward to posts on the rest of the upgrade.
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,199
Likes: 1
From: Salt Lake City, Utah
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
Thanks for all the good info Pilzner, I've bought V&H Big Shot Longs, SE/AC, and a SERT for mine. I just need some warmer weather so I can get started on the exhaust. I'm going to be using the O2 sensor's so I'm not sure about using a socket with the sensor wire in place. I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. Sounds like I better have a supply of beer in the fridge. 
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 658
Likes: 23
From: South Florida
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
I just installed a PC3 on my '07' Heritage Classic 2 days ago. Yes, the battery compartment is tight. I had to remove the bracket that holds the fuses and relays (as per instructions) and discard the entire thing. The instructions for the PC3 tells you to route the cable through the center hole in the battery compartment. I did that and found that it was just to tight. I re-routed the cable on the right side of the battery compartment and it gave me just a little more room to stuff everything back in. I thenzip tiedthe PC3 upside down (so the cable and usb ports don't collect water) to the bracket just above the alarm system, and then tied the PC3 cable to an existing set of wires running just behind the oil tank. When you zip tie the PC3 to the bracket above the alarm, don't pull them snug against the metal bracket, or it will pick up all the vibration from the bike. Zip tying the PC3 cable to the existing set ofwires,stiffens the entire unit and keeps it straight. I also used dielectric grease on all the connections.
I also installed 1.75 Rush slip-ons, and a K&N 3909 AC. I read an earlier post from someone who was not happy with the custom map they got from FuelMoto. Jamie programmed my PC3 and I couldn't be happier. 200 miles of highway and city driving so farhas not produced one pop, belch or hiccup from my bike. Smooth as silk. Good luck with your project
DJK
I also installed 1.75 Rush slip-ons, and a K&N 3909 AC. I read an earlier post from someone who was not happy with the custom map they got from FuelMoto. Jamie programmed my PC3 and I couldn't be happier. 200 miles of highway and city driving so farhas not produced one pop, belch or hiccup from my bike. Smooth as silk. Good luck with your project
DJK
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 295
Likes: 1
From:
RE: In progress lessons-learned of stage 1 upgrade
My rear 02 sensor would not come out either. I ended up unplugging it and removing the stock pipes and tried to get it out on the floor, as opposed to still attached on the bike. It was cross threaded at the factory. I ended up trashing mine, but did get it out eventually(dealerreplaced free under warranty). With low miles, wouldn't think they'd be such a big pain in the butt. Mine was definately cross threaded though.