Checking the Cam chaii tensioners
#1
11-07-2014, 07:05 PM
Checking the Cam chain tensioners
I have a 2002 Road King with 103" stroker, upgraded oil pump and the Hydraulic cam chain tensioner kits installed. Have about 40K miles on them.
I have the exhaust off for other issues right now and I would like the look at the tensioners to see how they are doing.
1). Do I need to drain the engine oil to do this or can I just remove the cover and have a look see?
Also.
2). What am I looking for? I have no idea what a good vs bad tensioner pad looks like. I know the one that is hidden usually burns out earlier than the exposed one.
3). Anyone have a picture of a good one for comparison purposes?
I have the exhaust off for other issues right now and I would like the look at the tensioners to see how they are doing.
1). Do I need to drain the engine oil to do this or can I just remove the cover and have a look see?
Also.
2). What am I looking for? I have no idea what a good vs bad tensioner pad looks like. I know the one that is hidden usually burns out earlier than the exposed one.
3). Anyone have a picture of a good one for comparison purposes?
#2
11-07-2014, 07:08 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
1) no
2) since you have the hydraulic ones, you're already a step ahead, but you'll be looking for deep grooves in the pad or chipped or split pads.
3) Google hydraulic tensioner pad harley and you'll see a bunch
2) since you have the hydraulic ones, you're already a step ahead, but you'll be looking for deep grooves in the pad or chipped or split pads.
3) Google hydraulic tensioner pad harley and you'll see a bunch
#4
11-07-2014, 07:10 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#5
11-13-2014, 07:14 PM
Well things broke today. Running 55 mph and got God awful screeching and loss of power. pulled into side street and bike stalled.
Had hard time starting it but was able to do so. Quite noisy. Out in the middle of nowhere so I rode about 20 miles to my favorite INDY. Noise got better as I rode and engine smoothed out a bit so it would at least idle.
INDY listened to it and said tensioner pads are indeed gone and wants $600 to replace everything in the cam chest, including the cam plate springs etc. Probably all mucked up with debris from the deteriorated pad(s).
The Hydraulic tensioner was installed 40K miles ago. He said that is about the limit of wear on those tensioner pads. OEM pads are about 32K miles.
Any thoughts? AM I being taken for a ride?
Had hard time starting it but was able to do so. Quite noisy. Out in the middle of nowhere so I rode about 20 miles to my favorite INDY. Noise got better as I rode and engine smoothed out a bit so it would at least idle.
INDY listened to it and said tensioner pads are indeed gone and wants $600 to replace everything in the cam chest, including the cam plate springs etc. Probably all mucked up with debris from the deteriorated pad(s).
The Hydraulic tensioner was installed 40K miles ago. He said that is about the limit of wear on those tensioner pads. OEM pads are about 32K miles.
Any thoughts? AM I being taken for a ride?
#6
11-13-2014, 07:56 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Hydraulic tensioners have been known to go 80k plus without issue. Only way to know is to check them.
#7
11-13-2014, 08:25 PM
Road Warrior
I take it you didn't check them while the exhaust was off?
If what described is what happened, that's not too bad considering the cleanup and time involved. I got prices ranging up to $1800.00 for someone else to do it with all the cool upgrades.
Oh and I got 74K on my stock sprung pads on my 06'. I'd bet I had 50 miles to go on one shoe when I opened it up. Whew!
I went in through the top, replacing the breather boxes inside. I bought Cyco's replacement tensioner shoes, but blew one tensioner up re installing it, thus I have one stock and one Cyco shoe in my cam box. We'll see.........
aka BOB
If what described is what happened, that's not too bad considering the cleanup and time involved. I got prices ranging up to $1800.00 for someone else to do it with all the cool upgrades.
Oh and I got 74K on my stock sprung pads on my 06'. I'd bet I had 50 miles to go on one shoe when I opened it up. Whew!
I went in through the top, replacing the breather boxes inside. I bought Cyco's replacement tensioner shoes, but blew one tensioner up re installing it, thus I have one stock and one Cyco shoe in my cam box. We'll see.........
aka BOB
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#8
11-13-2014, 09:08 PM
Read up on or Google it.. the SE kit didn't have the newer inboard chain included in it, it still used the some Morse type chain..
Only the outer chain is changed to a roller chain,,,
Been several reports and threads in here that said unless the inboard Chain was changed to the newer Roller type, the wear would be the same as the Org pads on it which needed checked every 25k or so...
Andrews used to have all the parts needed but I think you needed to change out your stock cams
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php?topic=13709.0
Only the outer chain is changed to a roller chain,,,
Been several reports and threads in here that said unless the inboard Chain was changed to the newer Roller type, the wear would be the same as the Org pads on it which needed checked every 25k or so...
Andrews used to have all the parts needed but I think you needed to change out your stock cams
http://harleytechtalk.org/htt/index.php?topic=13709.0
#9
11-14-2014, 06:53 PM
Hate to say it guys but I suffered engine failure today. The cam bearings went out taking just about everything in the cam chest with them. When the cam chest was opened it was ugly in there.
Bearings were half gone, cams damaged, tensioners half gone, scrape marks on the case etc etc.
Here is a post I made on a different forum.
Commenting on the INDY mech I deal with. He is very good at what he does. He has been wrenching bikes and running his own shop since dirt was invented. He (They) work on any type of Motorcycle. If it has 2 wheels he is on it. His rates are very reasonable
Got a chance to look at the Cam chest when opened up. Cam bearings (both of them) have disintegrated taking out the cam shafts. Both the shafts where they enter the bearings were heavily grooved as well as the lobes that drive the valves. Tension pads heavily grooved but still intact. The case was damaged where the shafts (or chains) scraped up against it but not enough to worry about. $600 is going to be a light estimate.
The Hydraulic cam kit was installed 40,000 miles ago so I imagine it was improperly installed . I can't believe the kit would only last 40K miles.
Bearings were half gone, cams damaged, tensioners half gone, scrape marks on the case etc etc.
Here is a post I made on a different forum.
Originally Posted by Rustyg500
If it's $600 out the door (parts and labor) to replace "everything", then I would probably do it if I were in your shoes. Likely he'll replace the tensioners, pads, some gaskets and o-rings - make sure he does the chain and changes the oil and it will still be an all day affair for him. Probably 6 hours of labor plus parts. Not much else to replace in there aside from cams and bearings which are likely fine, there's one spring and it will not need replacing. He realistically can't replace the cam plate and "everything" else for $600 without taking a loss on the job. Make sure he's exact with everything he's going to replace in his quote/estimate.
But yeah, as thermodyne stated, it's an easy day with a set of hand tools, the service manual and the internet if you have questions. The only special tool you require is torque wrench, although the push rod cover tool is nice to have. Found that out on my second cam tensioner job. Sure beat fighting with two screwdrivers.
But yeah, as thermodyne stated, it's an easy day with a set of hand tools, the service manual and the internet if you have questions. The only special tool you require is torque wrench, although the push rod cover tool is nice to have. Found that out on my second cam tensioner job. Sure beat fighting with two screwdrivers.
The Hydraulic cam kit was installed 40,000 miles ago so I imagine it was improperly installed . I can't believe the kit would only last 40K miles.
#10
11-14-2014, 06:59 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I can't see where the hydraulic kit only lasted 40k and then disintegrated. Do have your runout checked upon repair. Something is off here or install was shoddy.