Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection Need advice on ignition issues? Questions about a tuner? Have questions about a EFI calibration or Fuel Injection? Tips on Engine Diagnostics, how to get codes, and what they mean. Find your answers here.

A new thread about pinging

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
  #11  
Old 04-18-2016, 08:39 PM
Ed Ramberger's Avatar
Ed Ramberger
Ed Ramberger is offline
Stellar HDF Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Then Wisconsin, now North Carolina
Posts: 3,172
Received 887 Likes on 621 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Wide Open Cycles
True knock.is pre-ignition. The plug fires to soon in the combustion cycle (piston isn't up enough in the cycle before the spark ignites and tries to force it back down). Ideally you don't want any. That's are different approaches on how to cure spark knock. Retarding the ignition timing or adding fuel to the effected area is the most common. running higher octane fuel or running a cooler spark plug can also help.
Pre-ignition is defined as something causing the mixture to ignite before the plug does. Too advanced timing may be what you mean and that can be corrected by retarding the timing.

Detonation occurs after the spark plug ignites the mixture.

Allen Kline was an angineer on the Northstar project. He wrote a very interesting article on the subject. Here's a link.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html
 
  #12  
Old 04-19-2016, 06:18 AM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by scooterbum46
I might be beating a dead horse, but if you've got the original plugs, I'd put them back in and see if the knock events go away. I chased some pretty significant knocks under WOT upper mid-range on the TG, swapped plugs between cylinders, knock events went with the plug. New set of plugs gapped .035, no more knock count on PV.. As I said before, you might have an underlying issue that ION sensing was masking.. I just don't like the fact that this was introduced at the same time you changed plugs..
Thanks and I still have the plugs which were in actually pretty good shape. I will give that a try when I get home this weekend.

Thanks!
 
  #13  
Old 04-19-2016, 06:22 AM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Thanks to all for your replies. I have some things to do when I get back home - have to email my current map to Chad and to replace the existing with the original plugs to see if it goes away.

Just wanted to let everyone know that I can't try these things until I get home this weekend and the possibility exists that I may not get home until the 28th depending on my current client. Just don't want folks thinking I lost interest - just traveling.

Thanks again for your input.
 
  #14  
Old 04-19-2016, 06:25 AM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Wide Open Cycles
You can manually edit your Spark tables in the areas it's detecting knock. At a quick glance it's detecting a little in the 40-60kpa areas both front and rear.. If you want you can email your MAP to me at chad@wideopencycles.net and i'll make a few quick changes and you can do another data log.
I am going to email you the current map, but my question is - the current map was supplied by PV as a base and I then performed a couple of auto tune sessions. When I try to load the auto tune map it always says "no o2 sensors present" so it seems you cannot auto tune, load it and auto tune a previous auto tune if that makes any sense.

My assumption is that I would send the base map/tune that was given to me by FM?

Thanks
 
  #15  
Old 04-19-2016, 06:30 AM
Wide Open Cycles's Avatar
Wide Open Cycles
Wide Open Cycles is offline
Former Sponsor
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 719
Received 207 Likes on 143 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Ed Ramberger
Pre-ignition is defined as something causing the mixture to ignite before the plug does. Too advanced timing may be what you mean and that can be corrected by retarding the timing.

Detonation occurs after the spark plug ignites the mixture.

Allen Kline was an angineer on the Northstar project. He wrote a very interesting article on the subject. Here's a link.

http://www.contactmagazine.com/Issue...ineBasics.html
Great article, thanks for the link. Damon terminology gets me every time.
 
  #16  
Old 04-28-2016, 11:27 AM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Wide Open Cycles
You can manually edit your Spark tables in the areas it's detecting knock. At a quick glance it's detecting a little in the 40-60kpa areas both front and rear.. If you want you can email your MAP to me at chad@wideopencycles.net and i'll make a few quick changes and you can do another data log.
Finally able to respond and resurrect my search for a solution.

Just emailed you the map and log (sent in case you deleted).

Thanks again!
 
  #17  
Old 05-09-2016, 01:41 PM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Resurrecting this thread - I have had time to give this some attention.

Here is what has been done so far -

  1. Chad (Wide Open Cycles) generously sent me a tune to start with that modified the spark tables.
  2. I loaded that tune and then immediately started an auto tune session.
  3. The pinging seems to have gone away, but I know there are tuning opportunities with this tune.


I have included the logs from a ride. The bike runs pretty well, but the gas mileage is pretty horrible (39) after auto tuning and it was 44 before. It also pops and backfires a bit sometimes at idle giving it throttle.


Question - will the auto tune resolve these issues? The current tune is the result of about a 1 hour auto tune session, seems to have gotten a bit better but the throttle issue and gas mileage need to be corrected.


Thanks for looking!
 
Attached Files
File Type: csv
log0009.csv (232.2 KB, 42 views)
File Type: csv
log0010.csv (120.1 KB, 41 views)

Last edited by gilbert_roadking; 05-09-2016 at 01:43 PM.
  #18  
Old 05-09-2016, 07:19 PM
qtrracer's Avatar
qtrracer
qtrracer is offline
Ultimate HDF Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,533
Received 131 Likes on 104 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by gilbert_roadking
Resurrecting this thread - I have had time to give this some attention.

Here is what has been done so far -

  1. Chad (Wide Open Cycles) generously sent me a tune to start with that modified the spark tables.
  2. I loaded that tune and then immediately started an auto tune session.
  3. The pinging seems to have gone away, but I know there are tuning opportunities with this tune.


I have included the logs from a ride. The bike runs pretty well, but the gas mileage is pretty horrible (39) after auto tuning and it was 44 before. It also pops and backfires a bit sometimes at idle giving it throttle.


Question - will the auto tune resolve these issues? The current tune is the result of about a 1 hour auto tune session, seems to have gotten a bit better but the throttle issue and gas mileage need to be corrected.


Thanks for looking!
You could put it back the way it was, let it ping and get the better fuel mileage.
 
  #19  
Old 05-15-2016, 07:05 PM
jadyer's Avatar
jadyer
jadyer is offline
Advanced
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Utah
Posts: 97
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Hey what was your issue you stated in the original post? I just did Andrews 48h cams and I am having an ordeal with it when I start moving from a stop. It bogs real bad. What was your issue if you don't mind?
 
  #20  
Old 05-16-2016, 08:16 AM
gilbert_roadking's Avatar
gilbert_roadking
gilbert_roadking is offline
Cruiser
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Arizona
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by jadyer
Hey what was your issue you stated in the original post? I just did Andrews 48h cams and I am having an ordeal with it when I start moving from a stop. It bogs real bad. What was your issue if you don't mind?
I do not have a solution yet. I am still running my auto tune session, but have been out of town and leave again tomorrow for a week so won't get back to this until next weekend.

If you have a PV then ask the folks at Dynojet to send a new map and give them your configuration, if not then I will have to defer to the folks on here because I would have no idea how to fix that outside of being able to adjust parameters within the ECM.
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
cajun1957a
Touring Models
15
02-27-2017 07:55 AM
MURPHCC1
The Dyno Room
7
05-25-2016 03:42 AM
Andrea Capello
Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection
13
09-24-2015 03:03 PM
casper0410
Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection
1
08-16-2015 08:14 AM
SC-Longhair
Dyna Glide Models
17
05-11-2009 07:34 AM



Quick Reply: A new thread about pinging



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:14 AM.