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1970 XLCH Clutch and hot engine problem

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  #1  
Old 02-04-2009, 05:19 PM
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Default 1970 XLCH Clutch and hot engine problem

Good afternoon to all. Friend of mine just picked up a 1970 XLCH 900 Ironhead about 2 weeks ago. Bought it from a kid who's dad passed last year and the bike has been sitting in his garage since 1986. Motor was rebuilt in late 70's or early 80's by Harley because the guy tipped it over at the boat landing carb side down while running. (Not too sure what he was doing with his bike in the water). Kid thinks it needed Primary work, but for 1200 bucks we figured worst case scenario is we part it out. Took it home, pressure washed it, pulled the carb and cleaned it out. Polished the chrome. New battery and some fresh gas and oil (after we took the tank off and cleaned it) and about 1.5 hours of kicking and we got her to run. Seemed like it would not idle down unless you choked it out with your hand over the carb inlet. The front cylinder was also running much hotter than the rear. Tried adjsuting the mixture screws on the carb. No such luck. I figured maybe it was a vacuum leak someplace-either the o-rings on the intake (I assume it is an upgraded carb ((mikuni)) with y-pipe intake that has o-rings between the intake ports and intake manifold with a steel strap clamp around the joints). Have yet to run it again since then.

Question # 2. We also tore the wheels off to get new tubes and tires put on. Got them back from the shop, put them on. Adjusted the brakes and that. Everything seems to work ok there. Clutch seemed tight when we squeeze it. Got it back on the ground, squeeze the clutch, put it in 1st, let the clutch out, And it seems to engage just fine against the motor. Pull the lever back. Does not diesengage the clutch from the motor while in gear. Wondering if this is an adjustment issue, or potentially a bigger problem inside the primary. We do have an original service manual on the bike, but they don't talk. I consider myself pretty mechanically inclined with autos and trucks, but have never worked on motorcycles extensively. (I am currently turning my 07 Honda Shadow Spirit 750 into an old school bobber/chopper cross) Don't mean to get lengthy on you guys, but appreciate any helpful tips.
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 06:58 PM
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does sound like a intake leak , the clutch problem i have when the bike is cold also, i was told it was too heavy of oil in the primary.
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 08:01 PM
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I agree sounds like an intake leak. Needs the o-rings in there anyway. Sorry i am not so good on clutch problems. But i would certainly ensure a correct oil [about 1.5 pints] is in the primary, and check the adjustment.
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kizzletruck
Friend of mine just picked up a 1970 XLCH 900 Ironhead about 2 weeks ago.
Seemed like it would not idle down unless you choked it out with your hand over the carb inlet.
The front cylinder was also running much hotter than the rear. Tried adjsuting the mixture screws on the carb.
I figured maybe it was a vacuum leak someplace-either the o-rings on the intake
(I assume it is an upgraded carb ((mikuni)) with y-pipe intake that has o-rings between the intake ports and intake manifold with a steel strap clamp around the joints).

Question # 2. Clutch seemed tight when we squeeze it.
Got it back on the ground, squeeze the clutch, put it in 1st, let the clutch out,
And it seems to engage just fine against the motor. Pull the lever back. Does not diesengage the clutch from the motor while in gear. Wondering if this is an adjustment issue, or potentially a bigger problem inside the primary.
We do have an original service manual on the bike
First of all, let's talk about the clutch.
The 1970 was the last year Harley used what is called the 'Dry Clutch'. This clutch cannot stand any oil at all on the plates. The clutch hub basket has a bonnet cover with a gasket, and the rear of the hub has oil seals. This is to prevent the clutch from getting any oil on or in it.
If oil gets inside it will ruin the clutch plates and the clutch will slip. Also, the clutch will drag and feel like it is not disengaging, which in affect is just the case.
I am not saying yours is in that condition, but since it sat for so many years it is a possibility. When you first got the engine cranked for the first time, did it not puke oil out on the floor from the metal tube under the timing cover and below the generator?

Next, the carburator......
A Mikuni carb is certainly an aftermarket item. It also is a very, very good carb. It is going to be a 38mm size. You can no longer get any parts or gaskets for this carb as far as I know, so take care of what you have. That includes carb gaskets too.
The Mikuni has a fixed main jet, an adjustable low speed air/fuel mixture screw, and a needle that hangs inside the round slide. This needle has 5 notches on it with a clip inserted into one of the notches.
The notch you want the clip in is the middle one. That is, 3RD from the top, or 3RD from the bottom.



The low speed air/fuel adjustment screw is the small screw located above the float chamber close to the air cleaner backing plate. In the pic above this screw is almost hidden by the nut holding the backing plate on...........pg



 
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:28 PM
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Default Checklist (For Piniongear)

We gave it a fresh oil change the night we got it running, letting the old oil drain out overnight, so no oil came out of the tube under the generator. The oil we have in it is 20W50 Castrol. That is the only thing that a person we know runs in there older Harleys. Also for the Mikuni carb (Piniongear), How many turns out are your low speed adjustment screws, and your main adjustment screws? I will have to tear it down to see where the clip is at on the needle, but as I recall, it was on the middle notch. I will double check that though. When we did have it running there was no backfiring or popping through the exhaust (even when revving and letting drop down to idle, or what was supposed to be idle). Is the clutch adjustable without pulling the primary cover off?
 
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Old 02-04-2009, 10:32 PM
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Default One more thing.

It does not feel like the clutch is "dragging" or Slipping. I cannot tell the difference between when the clutch is in or out when it is in gear. Seems like I get the same amount of resistance from the motor either way. Neutral is fine, but when in gear, no matter if the clutch is in or out. Definatley a solid grab on the engine.
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:16 AM
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Hey piniongear:

Why can't you get parts for a 38mm mikuni anymore? I am thinking about buying a new Sudco mikuni kit for my bike but I hate the K&N air cleaner that comes with it.

What air cleaner are you running on the pic above? I like the fact that it still uses a front bracket to help support the weight of the air filter assy.

Carl
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by kizzletruck
We gave it a fresh oil change the night we got it running, letting the old oil drain out overnight, so no oil came out of the tube under the generator. The oil we have in it is 20W50 Castrol. That is the only thing that a person we know runs in there older Harleys.
As you well know, the Sportster is a dry sump oil system. That means the oil is stored in the oil tank, not in the sump of the engine. Actually, the engine has no sump. The oil pump pumps oil into the engine and then pumps it out back to the tank.
Whay happens with a Sportster is this.......
Sitting for a long time without being started can result in oil from the tank leaking past a check ball located in the oil pump, then it drains and collects in the bottom of the crankcase. This happens because of gravity and the ball not seating fully in the base of the pump.
There is only one way to get rid of this oil and that is to crank the engine and let it blow out the breather tube.
Earlier I mentioned that this may not be the case with your bike, as it is not a given that the load up on oil in the bottom end is going to happen. If the ball seats correctly, as yours seems to do, then no oil will leak past.
Trust me, if your crankcase had loaded up with oil you would have known it the second you fired up the engine by the oil dump out the breather tube.
While changing the oil in the tank is a good thing, it has nothing to do with getting oil out of the crankcase. Speaking of oil......I recommend you run Harley 60wt oil in the summer, or at least Castrol 50wt if you cannot get the Harley oil.
Here is a final point on the type of oil to use in an ironhead...... The engine oil and the transmission/primary oil are located in separate places on your machine. However, there is a breather valve inside the primary area that transfers engine oil over to the transmission and primary (which share a common oil reservoir).
Because of this. Harley recommends that the same oil be used in both the engine and the primary/transmission. This changed in 1977, but for your bike the rules stands......same oil in both places, and that should be 60wt in the summer.
Myself, I am not a believer in using the multiple weight oil in an old ironhead. Newer ones, yes, but definitely not the older ones.

Also for the Mikuni carb (Piniongear), How many turns out are your low speed adjustment screws, and your main adjustment screws? I will have to tear it down to see where the clip is at on the needle, but as I recall, it was on the middle notch. I will double check that though. When we did have it running there was no backfiring or popping through the exhaust (even when revving and letting drop down to idle, or what was supposed to be idle).
Here is the instruction for how to adjust the Mikuni low speed air screw.The pencil points to this screw.
The larger screw to the right is the idle speed adjustment screw. This screw simply lifts the throttle slide higher when the screw is turned in (higher idle rpm) and lower when backed out.




The screw that the pencil points to is the one you want to adjust.
Start like this........ Turn the screw in until it stops. Use a light touch and do not jam the screw against the seat.
Then back the screw out 1½ to 2 turns. Note: The maximum amount this screw can be turned out is 3 turns. More than that and the needle will no longer function!
Start the engine and warm it up fully.
Adjust the idle screw (larger one to the right) so the engine is running at a fast idle..... approx 1200 rpm.
Now turn the air screw slowly in or out, while watching or listening to the rpm. We are talking about only a ¼ to ½ turn of the screw here, either in or out.
What you want to do is adjust it to the point where you get the highest rpm possible.
When you have done that, re-adjust the idle speed down to a nice comfortable idle around 900 rpm.
Go through the air screw adjustment again to see if you can get a higher rpm. If not, then it is set correctly and you are good to go.
If this does not work, by that I mean you cannot get the bike to idle, then the carb should be disassembled and cleaned because the low speed passage may be gunked up.
I can provide a bit more technical data if you need it, but not here on the forum because I cannot attach PDF files, so you would have to email me.


Is the clutch adjustable without pulling the primary cover off?
Certainly the clutch is adjustable. Your clutch has 6 springs on the outer pressure plate that align the plate. If the springs are not adjusted correctly the plate wobbles and the clutch will drag.
Before you try to check on this be aware that you have to remove the bonnet cover and you will need a bonnet gasket and a primary cover gasket on hand to get it back together.
I suggest you get the bike running smoothly first and then ride the bike to see how the clutch is working.
It will go into first gear with a loud CLUNK! and a jerk. This is normal for an ironhead.
It may even take off down the driveway with you holding in the clutch lever! Again, this is normal for a Sportster that has sat for a long time. Riding the machine will loosen up the clutch. Then you will be able to decide if you need to look into it further.
Hope this helps you some. Start looking at that manual you say you have. Everything (almost) that you need to know is in there......pg

PS: There is no adjustment for the main jet. This is a fixed size jet. You change size by installing another jet. You do not want to do that however as the jet that came in the carb is the correct size for your engine.

 

Last edited by piniongear; 02-05-2009 at 10:49 AM. Reason: added PS
  #9  
Old 02-05-2009, 10:37 AM
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You may want to lube the clutch cable to ensure it travels freely ..
Also as said it's a dry clutch so they are known to have build up around the perimiter of the plates preventing the plates to disengage
 
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by carlgrover
Hey piniongear:

Why can't you get parts for a 38mm mikuni anymore? I am thinking about buying a new Sudco mikuni kit for my bike but I hate the K&N air cleaner that comes with it.

What air cleaner are you running on the pic above? I like the fact that it still uses a front bracket to help support the weight of the air filter assy.

Carl
Carl.....
I called Sudco in 2000 and talked with their tech person on the phone. I was trying to get a set of carb gaskets.
After a lot of time on the phone he told me that there were no longer parts available for the VMC 38mm carb.
I tried J&P as well and they had nothing. So I gave up. To my knowledge there are no parts. If someone knows different please let me know. The Mikuni is one of the best carbs I have ever had, bar none!
I currently run a Bendix only because I prefer to have the enclosed throttle cable in my handlebars and that is not possible with a Mikuni.
The round air cleaner cover is one I bought from VTwin (a.k.a.Tedd Cycle.....Ah, spit.....)
I went to the parts house and found a Toyoto paper element the fit into the cover. Then I took a piece of aluminum plate and turned a backing plate on the lathe to finish off the air cleaner assembly. So, this is not something that was purchased.
The original air cleaner that came with the Mikuni was a large cast aluminum backing plate and the original 'Ham Can cover' and element was used to provide an air cleaner. While it worked well, I wanted a smaller set up and decided to make my own when I did the major restoration back in 1995-2000.

And yes, before I forget, any carb that you put on a Sportster needs to have the carb brace on it because of the manifold with O rings and the minimal clamping used to hold it in place.
The clamps keep things air tight but do not support the carb. No brace means the carb and manifold are going to move and then that is when the air leaks start to happen.
pg
 


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