lots of great information about these and to hear that they will help improve the bike even with stock exhausts and air cleaners is swinging me towards them even more.
I understand they will 'learn' and improve over a few 100 miles or so.
My question is, should I then change air cleaner or exhaust, do they go though another 'learning cycle' again?

 

no just put them on and they will change the fuel ratio and it will run a lot smoother and still be fine when you add pipes and a filter as the fuel ratio would have already been adjusted. These are spot on devices and I had them on my iron with pipes and filter but spent loads of money on a power commander 5 thinking it would could be "better" and their was no difference at all and if I change my bike and had to start over again then would defo go with some xieds, vieds etc

 

I don't see anything about XiEDs being able to learn and they don't make a model to suit my Buell, so I bought a Kitech (rebadged Dobeck) beasty which is adjustable and has worked wonders. I have a free-flow air filter and muffler and the bike now starts more readily, idles more smoothly, doesn't pop anything like it used to and is a much nicer bike to ride. So that's an alternative.

 

You can put them on before or after you change the air cleaner and/or exhaust. The ECM, with the help of the XiED product will adjust for the changes you make.

You can see more details HERE.

Yes, it does take 200-300 miles and several ignition cycles for the XiED products to show their full benefit. They work with the ECM and the ECM has adaptive learning, part of the is the Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT). The LTFT adjusts the AFR in open loop. The Closed Loop benefit of the XiED product is experienced as soon as they are installed, the Open Loop takes some riding before it is fully realized.

I have a technical write up on it somewhere on the forum, will try and find it later if anyone's interested.

 

Kevin.... I am interested.

 

Here you go...I wrote this up back in November 2012, but everything is still the same on the 2015 HD EFI.

From the factory the HD ECM does adapt. It will bring/keep the closed loop AFR to EPA required of 14.6:1 -14.7:1

This applies to an open A/C or open exhaust, and sometimes even both.

It (the ECM) will also make adjustments in the open loop, via adaptive learning, although not as well.

Many of us are not happy with the 14.6:1 AFR in closed loop. The leaness results in low RPM stumbling and less than smooth acceleration. However, it does not seem to damage the engine, it just compromises riding enjoyment for some of us.

The above is true regardless of any A/C or exhaust mods.

This is why many of us use an XiED family product (budget) or a full tuner to get a richer AFR in closed and open loop.




The following information is based on conversations with our HD contact, our Delphi contact, HD Service Manuals, HD SEPST Documentation, TTS Documentation, and my own synthesis of years of experience with thousands of bikes.

It is probably not enough for some that may want a written explanation from HD or Delphi, but hopefully it will be of assistance to some in understanding HD Fuel Injection processes.

There may be some confusion regarding the term Adaptive Learning.

There are two ways the Electronic Control Module (ECM) adapts:

First, let's look at what input the ECM receives, so we know what it has to work with to make any "Adaptive" changes-

1. CKP - (Crankshaft Position Sensor): Basically this sensor monitors the crankshaft speed and position. The ECM uses the inputs from the sensor to determine what stroke the engine is in so it can deliver the fuel and spark at the desired time...

2. MAP - (Manifold Absolute Pressure): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.

3. IAT - (Intake Air Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much oxygen exists in a particular volume of air..

4. ET - (Engine Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to determine engine temperature...

5. TP - (Throttle Position): Provides input to the ECM as it reacts to throttle shaft rotation... These signals indicate throttle position, if the throttle is opening or closing and how fast it is opening and closing...

6. VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor): Provides input signals to the ECM to indicate the speed of the motorcycle...

7. BAS (Bank Angle Sensor): If the motorcycle leans over more than 45 degree's from vertical... If the ECM receives this input for more than one second it assumes the motorcycle has fallen over and shuts down the fuel management and ignition circuit...

8. O2 Sensor: The are switching type sensors (stock HD's are narrow band sensors used in closed loop systems) they provide inputs to the ECM based on the amount of oxygen is being sent in the exhaust system...

9. ISS (Ion Sensing System): It detects detonation or engine misfire in either the front or rear cylinder by monitoring the electrical energy at the spark plug following every time spark...If an abnormal level of energy is detected across two or three spark firings the ECM responds by retarding the spark timing in the affected cylinder as needed to eliminate it...

All of the above sensors give data to the ECM to allow it to ADAPT to the ever-changing environment. This is one of the ways the ECM ADAPTS.

The second way the ECM ADAPTS is via "Adaptive Fuel Value" or "Adaptive Fuel" (reference the HD brand Tuners to see that this is a feature of the ECM) This is commonly what is referred to as the Adaptive Learning Mode.

Adaptive Fuel is known generally in the EFI world as Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).

When in closed loop the ECM uses the information from the above list to calculate airflow, load, temperatures, throttle position, to adapt and maintain the targeted AFR in the closed loop section of the map.

It then uses the o2 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment real time to the closed loop map, AND stores the difference in an "Adaptive Fuel Value" cell for future use in Open Loop. (again, reference the HD Brand Tuners to verify that there is an Adaptive Fuel Value" that is stored in the ECM and that is constantly changing)

Over time (sources vary between 30-120 minutes of riding) the Adaptive Fuel Value develops a correction profile that is applied to each cell of the map in open loop.

To put it another way, when the ECM sees the closed loop values constantly being richer than expected (like when using an XiED family product), the Long Term Fuel Trim (Adaptive Fuel Value) is increased, resulting in a richening up of the open loop values.

I hope this helps those looking for a clearer understanding of the HD EFI.

 

this is why I love forums like this, you get a proper answer
not 'looks better in black' or wouldn't do that because it's crap

thanks guys, think I know what my next purchase is

 

Thanks for the info Kevin. Knowledge is power (so to speak).

The reason I was interested in your detailed notes:
Purchased a 1200T in November, 2014
Modifications include:
American Custom growler baffles
DK Custom 118 Torques
DK Custom 425 Air Cleaner
DK Custom XL-ViED-14 Fuel Management

I'm getting Deceleration Popping with this set up. I've only run the bike an hour and a half (and about 40 miles) so far as it's been a bit of a rough winter (we live next to Worcester, MA which had the most snow in the country for the second year in a row). I used the smoke from incense to see if I had a leak in the exhaust but didn't find one. I can't recall for sure but I believe I set the ViED's at 50 percent prior to installing them.
I'm hoping when the ViED's "learn" more they will increase the fuel and the popping will be greatly reduced or go away altogether. If after 100 miles or so the popping does not go away I was planning on increasing the ViED's to 75 percent and repeat the process. (I still want SOME fuel economy so I'd like to increase the fuel but only as much as I have to.) FYI: The bike is running beautifully - much more power (duh) than my previous bike - a 1992 883 Sportster Deluxe. I realize popping is not bad for the bike but it "sounds" like the bike isn't running right. I'll also be checking the plugs after a few hundred miles to make sure I'm not giving it too much or too little fuel.So my question is:

Am I on the right track?

Sidebar: Kevin...I bought the powder black version of the 425. I'm thinking I may want the mirror chrome instead but I don't see the chrome cover as a line item on your website. Is it possible to just buy the mirror chrome cover and if so how much?

Sorry for long post ...

 

I run Samson full exhaust, DK 587 air cleaner and fl-vieds at about 75%front and 60% rear I still have alittle decel pop but with the short pipes, I don't think I can illuminate it totally. Very happy with the vieds.

 

Congrats on your new ride! Sounds like you are enjoying it.

Your question about the right track...

It is a common misconception that decel pop is due to a lean condition. Decel pop occurring because of a lean condition is very, very rare. Most of the time decel pop occurs when there is the "right" mix of air and fuel in the exhaust. The easiest way reduce, or eliminate decel pop, is to change the air fuel mixture in the exhaust. This can be done a few ways-

1. Increase the amount of air in the exhaust
2. Decrease the amount of air in the exhaust
3. Increase the amount of fuel in the exhaust
4. Decrease the amount of fuel in the exhaust

If you increase the amount of air in the exhaust, it is likely you will have a reduction in power, because that means you will be getting more reversion. However, that is something to try easily. Turn the W118's about 45 degrees. This will let more air into the exhaust and may reduce/eliminate the decel pop without too big of a hit on low and mid range power.

Another option is, IF the W158's will fit in your exhaust, that will reduce the amount of air in the exhaust and should reduce/eliminate the decel pop.

The other options are to experiment with the settings on your ViED's. Since you are at 50% and it is running good, I would first try dialing it down and see if the reduction in fuel will reduce/eliminate the decel pop without negatively affecting performance.

If that does not work, then go the opposite direction, adding more fuel.

You will not hurt the bike by going all the way to zero or all the way to 100 on the ViED adjustments, so if changing the angle of the W118's does not do the trick, then adjusting the ViED's would be the next "free" step.

Not sure if you're aware, checking plugs on an EFI bike is completely different than a carbed bike. There are many posts on the process, but the short of it is, you cannot just pull the plugs and look at them.

Need to be going at interstate speeds (with a steady throttle) for a good while 20-30 minutes. Then without letting up on the throttle, hit the kill switch and coast to the side of the road. Then pull the plugs and look at them. That will give you a look at the plugs to see if lean, rich, or just right.

Re: the 425 covers- Click on this LINK to see where you can get just the Chrome cover for the Outlaw 425.

Please post up which way you end up using to get rid of the decel pop, I am sure there are others with similar set-ups that can benefit from what you do.