common Neutral pain finding it
#91
06-28-2015, 06:48 AM
Club Member
Mike,
Sorry. It's not how it works. Primary chain tightness has nothing to do with clutch slip/friction/or dog gear loading or unloading.
Clutch hub spins at the same rate, clutch disk friction stays at the same friction, the distance between clutch disks and steels stays the same, oil viscosity stays at the same viscosity, clutch spring stays at the same resistance, and dog gears (all the way in the transmission) stay at the same resistance to push/pull.... all without any care in the world on how tight the primary chain is.
Clutch disk separation to disconnect the engine from the trans, which offloads the trans main shaft and thus the dog gear is what affects a user finding neutral.
Separation can be accomplished generally in two ways.
1) Increase the throw-out distance between the clutch plates - open them more.
2) Run thinner oil or a type of oil with less grab.
In your case, you state that it's an overly tight primary chain. True this can cause havoc because it overloads the IPB, which in time can deflect the trans main shaft (input shaft), and that could lead to numerous issues that could include hard shifting, but it is not the main reason a great deal of people experience hard to find neutral right out of the box. Poor clutch disk separation is... typically.
And plenty of people had trouble finding neutral before the 6 speed/auto tensioner. That's a way out there comment. If you search this site for "hard to find neutral", you'll find many posts before 07.
As an indy I've run about every tensioner out there. No effect once you properly adjust the clutch.
Got ya a little mad eh? I'd have a little more respect for you if you'd stop with the cry-baby name calling. Doesn't become you and kinda makes you look even more like you don't know what you're talking about.
Have a nice night Mike.
Sorry. It's not how it works. Primary chain tightness has nothing to do with clutch slip/friction/or dog gear loading or unloading.
Clutch hub spins at the same rate, clutch disk friction stays at the same friction, the distance between clutch disks and steels stays the same, oil viscosity stays at the same viscosity, clutch spring stays at the same resistance, and dog gears (all the way in the transmission) stay at the same resistance to push/pull.... all without any care in the world on how tight the primary chain is.
Clutch disk separation to disconnect the engine from the trans, which offloads the trans main shaft and thus the dog gear is what affects a user finding neutral.
Separation can be accomplished generally in two ways.
1) Increase the throw-out distance between the clutch plates - open them more.
2) Run thinner oil or a type of oil with less grab.
In your case, you state that it's an overly tight primary chain. True this can cause havoc because it overloads the IPB, which in time can deflect the trans main shaft (input shaft), and that could lead to numerous issues that could include hard shifting, but it is not the main reason a great deal of people experience hard to find neutral right out of the box. Poor clutch disk separation is... typically.
And plenty of people had trouble finding neutral before the 6 speed/auto tensioner. That's a way out there comment. If you search this site for "hard to find neutral", you'll find many posts before 07.
As an indy I've run about every tensioner out there. No effect once you properly adjust the clutch.
Got ya a little mad eh? I'd have a little more respect for you if you'd stop with the cry-baby name calling. Doesn't become you and kinda makes you look even more like you don't know what you're talking about.
Have a nice night Mike.
Cry baby? LOL. It just kills me when people like you reply to others like you know everything and actually don't know much at all. But keep Googling answers and you might impress someone.
#92
06-28-2015, 06:54 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Nice elementary explanation of how the primary/clutch/input shaft operates on a Harley. Brillance.
Cry baby? LOL. It just kills me when people like you reply to others like you know everything and actually don't know much at all. But keep Googling answers and you might impress someone.
Cry baby? LOL. It just kills me when people like you reply to others like you know everything and actually don't know much at all. But keep Googling answers and you might impress someone.
#94
06-28-2015, 09:44 AM
Road Warrior
I never have a problem finding neutral on my RK so its not the transmission, though the RK does use a cable instead of hydraulic clutch.
The owners manual does say to be very careful not to overfill the transmission or it will be hard to find neutral. I did think before I did the fluids myself at 1000 miles neutral was tricky at times, I noticed after to did my 1000 mile service it was always easy to find neutral which leads me to believe it was slightly overfilled from the factory/dealer.
I use Primary +
The owners manual does say to be very careful not to overfill the transmission or it will be hard to find neutral. I did think before I did the fluids myself at 1000 miles neutral was tricky at times, I noticed after to did my 1000 mile service it was always easy to find neutral which leads me to believe it was slightly overfilled from the factory/dealer.
I use Primary +
Last edited by alarmdoug; 06-28-2015 at 09:48 AM.
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