My Uninformed Long Dumb Take on Harley and The Softail
#1
06-22-2019, 03:07 AM
My Uninformed Long Dumb Take on Harley and The Softail
I’m going to go to bat for Harley and what they’re doing and where they are right now and it’s not just because I’m a contrarian. Harley-Davidson throughout most of its history has build pretty sub par motorcycles. Whether it was the AMF goons in their crappy Midwest department store suits or the current crop of product managers in their khakis and baseball hats- they’ve always had a hard time pulling off legitimate style. There’s always been a certain disconnect with what “the kids want”. Somehow though- they’ve always had a group of kids who were into their bikes who were able to make them cool. All the best and most iconic Harleys- bobbers in the post war period- choppers in the late sixties and seventies, were created by kids at the social and cultural margins. While this group has never represented more than a tiny percentage of Harley owners- they’ve always helped define its ethos and at the end of the day gave the fat middle aged to elderly simpleton white guy a little tiny tiny taste of danger, freedom, strength, power- and an “i don’t give a ****” attitude to buy in to. Sure his overpriced something-Glide had nothing in common with anything a Boozefighter was riding in Hollister -and you couldn’t design two more different bikes than a big Harley Bagger and a stripped down East Bay chopper- Today since CARB rules here in California have essentially given law enforcement carte blanche to pull over anyone- real Outlaw Motorcycle Club members have traded in their Dads’ overpowered skinny custom choppers for what’s become “Club Style”- basically an innocuous late model black Dyna with skinny tall T-bars, better suspension, a hopped up engine, and somewhat quieter two into one pipes that actually have mufflers and baffles. These bikes are just as cool to Gen Xers and Millenials as the choppers Hunter Thomson described in Hell’s Angels were to Baby Boomers back before they were all dying of old age.
Club Style bikes, Baggers tuned for performance and doing wheelies, and perhaps most importantly the popular revival of flat-track racing through the whole Hooligan Racing series- represent probably the most vital and exciting part of the motorcycle industry. Harley importantly is embracing all this stuff. They’re sponsoring stunt riders- their dealers are putting on events, contingencies for flat track racing and corporate support is bigger than it ever had been from Harley. This isn’t new. Harley has always embraced those folks who were pushing Harley in in edgey ways. 1%ers have always sold bikes- so have XR750s and Evel Knievel. The issue has always been that Harley has SUCKED at their own brand management. They just don’t get it and never have. They’re too Midwest. Too middle America. The fact of the matter is that this country (not to mention this world) is increasingly less male, less white, less conservative, less Midwestern and suburban sensibilities every day. This demographic certainly still exists and certainly still buys a shi’ite ton of Harley- and they still see a Harley as a way that they can let their hair down a little bit. They’d never join the Mongols themselves- but gosh those engineer boots and Thuderhead pipes look swell! The issue is that Harley is still run by those folks and they don’t really “get” what Harley needs to make in order to stay cool, current, and aspirational for people.
It’s really good that Harley recognizes that they need to appeal to women, Hispanic folks, Black folks, and perhaps most importantly people outside the Continental United States-the marketing is far more inclusive and it doesn’t feel forced either. The issue is not the marketing- the issue is the product. Just like always- Harley is psyched about the cool kids being in to their bikes- but don’t know how to make the actual bike. The saving grace for Harley has always been that they have made the bikes incredibly easy to modify. Take the new latest Softails. These are bikes made in 2019 that can literally have their cams, and heads replaced- install a big bore kit- in your garage with $100 worth of Harbor Freight tools without having to even REMOVE THE ENGINE. You can increase the horsepower and torque by 40-50% with $2500 worth of parts in your garage in a weekend if you’re moderately mechanically inclined.
This has always been the case and the fact that Harley makes it this easy and it is encouraged through a massive parts catalog- means that this is still the case. However- there are several issues at play that are stacked against Harley. Firstly- as part of their “arrangement” with the EPA, and due in some part to new CARB regulations in California and other states, Harley is actively denying warranty coverage to customers who have modified their bikes on their own or outside of the Harley dealership network even when using HD parts. They’re also doing the same with third party parts regardless of who installs them. In reality this isn’t really that much of a change- if a non Harley parts causes a failure- of course it won’t be covered by warranty and that has always been the case- it’s just that now Harley is proselytizingthis which may discourage folks from modifying their bikes and making them their own.
The second issue is that most 20-30 somethings in the US didn’t grow up around motorcycles or dirt bikes- they probably didn’t have shop in school- they have less disposable income than their parents or grand parents- and they also are used to buying luxury goods and not having to work on them or modify them mechanically.
One saving grace is that this demographic IS totally used to modding their phones with apps and customizing that whole experience. What Harley needs to do is work in electronic customization that can be done by the end user on their Livewires and future electric bikes. Imagine being able to instantly change the throttle response and virtual torque curve of the bike as well as the sound through an app? It’d be the same as how folks now move the power band of their V Twins by swapping cams and change the sound of their bikes by swapping pipes.
I think Harley introducing an electric bike and a small displacement bike for Asia is awesome. If the Livewire can be modded in the way described- it won’t matter if it is 50% more expensive than a Zero. Let’s face it- a Zero looks cheap. the Livewire actually looks like a quality product. If kids can alter its sound and performance- and there will still be different bar, bodywork, saddle, and luggage and lighting options- they’ll kill it with this bike.
In regards to the Asian market- it’s going to be tougher. They need to make an aspirational cool product and there won’t be any bunch of aftermarket folks to make it appear out of nowhere. Harley need to do something crazy- like hire Roland Sands to be the product manager for say- the Street and Sportster line. We just need to look at how technically great the new Softail line up is- and just how “off” each of those models really are. Honestly- the bikes handle great, the engine is phenomenal, and the fit and finish is better than any Harley ever.
Yet- every model while fine- are either boring and played out and boring, repetitive and a near clone to another model, or just really not well thought out at all and fundamentally missing the target they’re aiming for. To me a complete Softail line that would appeal to EVERYONE would be easy- here’s how you do it: I’ve listed an existing model and how I would change it below:
1. Street Bob: This is the entry level Softail that comes with a 107 and mini apes. This one they could probably leave alone. It’s actually the best of the current line-up because it’s the easiest to modify and make into your own. The engine and frame are blacked out and the mini Apes make bar swaps fairly easy. However- what this bike really should be is the ClubStyle bike everyone seems to be turning it into at least here in SoCal. It should get 12" T-bars, a fairing like the Memphis Shades Road Warrior with 12 inch windscreen. They should also put the longest rear shock they can in it- use a 14 inch shock and this thing would be perfect. It needs the mag wheels from the Low Rider too- but in black. It also needs a square Saddleman/Whiplash/Lucky Dave’s style seat. This bike would sell like hot cakes. It’s the Club/Thug style bike that just works.
2. Low Rider: This bike is pretty well set too- but I think they should really emphasize the ‘70s low rider thing- give it the spoked wheels I took away from the Street Bob and give it some silver mini apes.
3. Softail Slim: Kill it. They don’t need it. It doesn’t add anything to the line.
4. Fat Bob: This is a great bike. It’s different, modern, kinda adventure bike looking kinda hooligan bike looking. It shows that sometimes even a blind pig finds an acorn- Harley didn’t follow any trends and just went and designed a really cool awesome looking bike. Keep it!
5. Deluxe: The Deluxe is a great bike for what it is. It’s a classic regular Harley. This is the quintessential Softail. They don’t need to do much with this one.
5. Sport Glide: I don’t really get this bike. It’s like they heard about the new performance style Dyna/FXR stuff kids were doing and tried to build one without ever seeing one. This bike needs an FXR style fairing- some other aero stuff- increase the suspension travel- paint the fairing and hard bags to match- and this thing would be amazing. Do some blacked out Club Style paint and then some crazy custom designs too.
6. Fat Boy: People still buy these? Cool I guess.
7. Heritage Classic:You don’t need this bike since you have the Deluxe. Here’s how we use this one’s place. Take the Street Bob from above- put USD Ohlins forks and an Ohlins long travel shock. Use the FXDR’s swing arm. Install a race style fairing and seat like a flat track sporty- put wide flat track bars on this one and Dunlop Flat-Track looking tires. Do a chain drive and a Screaming Eagle Stage Two from the factory. Use a really heavy mag rear wheel to calm the thing down if it ever does go play in the dirt. Install a clamp on front brake lever with external cable routing so the whole front brake can be taken off easily- and make it so that the inside peg can be mounted in the regular position or a “high”position. A two into one exhaust too. It needn’t be super high pipes- flat track bikes can have lowish pipes now... but something like S&S’s new two into ones would be great. Of course this bike is really too big and fat for flat track- but who cares it will look the part. Oh- you’ve got to offer it in Xr-750 paint too.
8. BreakOut We don’t need this bike and the FXDR. So in this one’s spot we basically rip off what folks like Arch are doing. Take that same flat track looking thing we replaced the Heritage with- but we add Brembo brakes, clip-ons, a more cafe style single seat, whatever Pirellis Ducati and Aprilia are putting on their liter bikes, This thing should also get a Sreaming Eagle Stage kit out of the box-in this case stage iii. This thing also needs a full Bosch ABS system with traction control and all that jazz. Carbon wheels would be super neat-o too but might make the price too crazy. Oh it needs rear sets too and an exhaust that looks ok. The exhaust should be the one from the aftermarket catalog for the FXR.
9. FXDR: This thing needs to have its rear fender removed- get smaller LEDs to replace all the lights- it should get real drag bars and while the forward controls are super weird- it actually works with this bike. I like the FXDR- they did a good job with it. It should come with the Screaming Eagle Stage ii Torque Cam out of the box though.
That’s all my horribly long winded take on Harley. Just so you guys know- I put my money where my mouth is and bought a new Street Bob. I now own that and my Aprilia RSV4 RR- I love both of these bikes- although the Harley is slowly turning into what I described above and it is about 100x better than it was stock. Honestly- if you use your bike as trasnportation in Southern California a Street Bob set up Club Style is pretty much the perfect bike. It’s nimble and narrow enough to lane split easily. It’s got tons of torque (but needs more horsepower) and rides great. I’ve been using it everyday since I got it.
Hey Thanks for reading!
Club Style bikes, Baggers tuned for performance and doing wheelies, and perhaps most importantly the popular revival of flat-track racing through the whole Hooligan Racing series- represent probably the most vital and exciting part of the motorcycle industry. Harley importantly is embracing all this stuff. They’re sponsoring stunt riders- their dealers are putting on events, contingencies for flat track racing and corporate support is bigger than it ever had been from Harley. This isn’t new. Harley has always embraced those folks who were pushing Harley in in edgey ways. 1%ers have always sold bikes- so have XR750s and Evel Knievel. The issue has always been that Harley has SUCKED at their own brand management. They just don’t get it and never have. They’re too Midwest. Too middle America. The fact of the matter is that this country (not to mention this world) is increasingly less male, less white, less conservative, less Midwestern and suburban sensibilities every day. This demographic certainly still exists and certainly still buys a shi’ite ton of Harley- and they still see a Harley as a way that they can let their hair down a little bit. They’d never join the Mongols themselves- but gosh those engineer boots and Thuderhead pipes look swell! The issue is that Harley is still run by those folks and they don’t really “get” what Harley needs to make in order to stay cool, current, and aspirational for people.
It’s really good that Harley recognizes that they need to appeal to women, Hispanic folks, Black folks, and perhaps most importantly people outside the Continental United States-the marketing is far more inclusive and it doesn’t feel forced either. The issue is not the marketing- the issue is the product. Just like always- Harley is psyched about the cool kids being in to their bikes- but don’t know how to make the actual bike. The saving grace for Harley has always been that they have made the bikes incredibly easy to modify. Take the new latest Softails. These are bikes made in 2019 that can literally have their cams, and heads replaced- install a big bore kit- in your garage with $100 worth of Harbor Freight tools without having to even REMOVE THE ENGINE. You can increase the horsepower and torque by 40-50% with $2500 worth of parts in your garage in a weekend if you’re moderately mechanically inclined.
This has always been the case and the fact that Harley makes it this easy and it is encouraged through a massive parts catalog- means that this is still the case. However- there are several issues at play that are stacked against Harley. Firstly- as part of their “arrangement” with the EPA, and due in some part to new CARB regulations in California and other states, Harley is actively denying warranty coverage to customers who have modified their bikes on their own or outside of the Harley dealership network even when using HD parts. They’re also doing the same with third party parts regardless of who installs them. In reality this isn’t really that much of a change- if a non Harley parts causes a failure- of course it won’t be covered by warranty and that has always been the case- it’s just that now Harley is proselytizingthis which may discourage folks from modifying their bikes and making them their own.
The second issue is that most 20-30 somethings in the US didn’t grow up around motorcycles or dirt bikes- they probably didn’t have shop in school- they have less disposable income than their parents or grand parents- and they also are used to buying luxury goods and not having to work on them or modify them mechanically.
One saving grace is that this demographic IS totally used to modding their phones with apps and customizing that whole experience. What Harley needs to do is work in electronic customization that can be done by the end user on their Livewires and future electric bikes. Imagine being able to instantly change the throttle response and virtual torque curve of the bike as well as the sound through an app? It’d be the same as how folks now move the power band of their V Twins by swapping cams and change the sound of their bikes by swapping pipes.
I think Harley introducing an electric bike and a small displacement bike for Asia is awesome. If the Livewire can be modded in the way described- it won’t matter if it is 50% more expensive than a Zero. Let’s face it- a Zero looks cheap. the Livewire actually looks like a quality product. If kids can alter its sound and performance- and there will still be different bar, bodywork, saddle, and luggage and lighting options- they’ll kill it with this bike.
In regards to the Asian market- it’s going to be tougher. They need to make an aspirational cool product and there won’t be any bunch of aftermarket folks to make it appear out of nowhere. Harley need to do something crazy- like hire Roland Sands to be the product manager for say- the Street and Sportster line. We just need to look at how technically great the new Softail line up is- and just how “off” each of those models really are. Honestly- the bikes handle great, the engine is phenomenal, and the fit and finish is better than any Harley ever.
Yet- every model while fine- are either boring and played out and boring, repetitive and a near clone to another model, or just really not well thought out at all and fundamentally missing the target they’re aiming for. To me a complete Softail line that would appeal to EVERYONE would be easy- here’s how you do it: I’ve listed an existing model and how I would change it below:
1. Street Bob: This is the entry level Softail that comes with a 107 and mini apes. This one they could probably leave alone. It’s actually the best of the current line-up because it’s the easiest to modify and make into your own. The engine and frame are blacked out and the mini Apes make bar swaps fairly easy. However- what this bike really should be is the ClubStyle bike everyone seems to be turning it into at least here in SoCal. It should get 12" T-bars, a fairing like the Memphis Shades Road Warrior with 12 inch windscreen. They should also put the longest rear shock they can in it- use a 14 inch shock and this thing would be perfect. It needs the mag wheels from the Low Rider too- but in black. It also needs a square Saddleman/Whiplash/Lucky Dave’s style seat. This bike would sell like hot cakes. It’s the Club/Thug style bike that just works.
2. Low Rider: This bike is pretty well set too- but I think they should really emphasize the ‘70s low rider thing- give it the spoked wheels I took away from the Street Bob and give it some silver mini apes.
3. Softail Slim: Kill it. They don’t need it. It doesn’t add anything to the line.
4. Fat Bob: This is a great bike. It’s different, modern, kinda adventure bike looking kinda hooligan bike looking. It shows that sometimes even a blind pig finds an acorn- Harley didn’t follow any trends and just went and designed a really cool awesome looking bike. Keep it!
5. Deluxe: The Deluxe is a great bike for what it is. It’s a classic regular Harley. This is the quintessential Softail. They don’t need to do much with this one.
5. Sport Glide: I don’t really get this bike. It’s like they heard about the new performance style Dyna/FXR stuff kids were doing and tried to build one without ever seeing one. This bike needs an FXR style fairing- some other aero stuff- increase the suspension travel- paint the fairing and hard bags to match- and this thing would be amazing. Do some blacked out Club Style paint and then some crazy custom designs too.
6. Fat Boy: People still buy these? Cool I guess.
7. Heritage Classic:You don’t need this bike since you have the Deluxe. Here’s how we use this one’s place. Take the Street Bob from above- put USD Ohlins forks and an Ohlins long travel shock. Use the FXDR’s swing arm. Install a race style fairing and seat like a flat track sporty- put wide flat track bars on this one and Dunlop Flat-Track looking tires. Do a chain drive and a Screaming Eagle Stage Two from the factory. Use a really heavy mag rear wheel to calm the thing down if it ever does go play in the dirt. Install a clamp on front brake lever with external cable routing so the whole front brake can be taken off easily- and make it so that the inside peg can be mounted in the regular position or a “high”position. A two into one exhaust too. It needn’t be super high pipes- flat track bikes can have lowish pipes now... but something like S&S’s new two into ones would be great. Of course this bike is really too big and fat for flat track- but who cares it will look the part. Oh- you’ve got to offer it in Xr-750 paint too.
8. BreakOut We don’t need this bike and the FXDR. So in this one’s spot we basically rip off what folks like Arch are doing. Take that same flat track looking thing we replaced the Heritage with- but we add Brembo brakes, clip-ons, a more cafe style single seat, whatever Pirellis Ducati and Aprilia are putting on their liter bikes, This thing should also get a Sreaming Eagle Stage kit out of the box-in this case stage iii. This thing also needs a full Bosch ABS system with traction control and all that jazz. Carbon wheels would be super neat-o too but might make the price too crazy. Oh it needs rear sets too and an exhaust that looks ok. The exhaust should be the one from the aftermarket catalog for the FXR.
9. FXDR: This thing needs to have its rear fender removed- get smaller LEDs to replace all the lights- it should get real drag bars and while the forward controls are super weird- it actually works with this bike. I like the FXDR- they did a good job with it. It should come with the Screaming Eagle Stage ii Torque Cam out of the box though.
That’s all my horribly long winded take on Harley. Just so you guys know- I put my money where my mouth is and bought a new Street Bob. I now own that and my Aprilia RSV4 RR- I love both of these bikes- although the Harley is slowly turning into what I described above and it is about 100x better than it was stock. Honestly- if you use your bike as trasnportation in Southern California a Street Bob set up Club Style is pretty much the perfect bike. It’s nimble and narrow enough to lane split easily. It’s got tons of torque (but needs more horsepower) and rides great. I’ve been using it everyday since I got it.
Hey Thanks for reading!
The following 4 users liked this post by cgaulzetti:
#2
06-22-2019, 05:32 AM
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06-22-2019, 05:34 AM
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#4
06-22-2019, 05:48 AM
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#5
06-22-2019, 06:36 AM
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#6
06-22-2019, 07:09 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Wow, that's time I'll never get back. A guy like the OP is just what Harley needs to get them back on track so they better snap him up before Indian makes him an offer.
What Harley really needs is to fire whoever the sissy is that comes up with the goofy model names. FatBoy, Breakout, Rocker and Slim? Come on, really?
What Harley really needs is to fire whoever the sissy is that comes up with the goofy model names. FatBoy, Breakout, Rocker and Slim? Come on, really?
#7
06-22-2019, 07:27 AM
You forgot Softail...The stupidest name for a Harley ever, well, maybe Whizzer...
Last edited by Dan89FLSTC; 06-22-2019 at 07:30 AM.
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#8
06-22-2019, 07:47 AM
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#9
06-22-2019, 07:50 AM
Tourer
I obviously disagree about the heritage, he seems to favor trendy SoCal Bikes as fashionable cool dude look.
Last edited by sectime; 06-22-2019 at 07:53 AM.
