Sheared my rear pulley bolts off today
#21
sure they are fine. if you want to replace wheel and swingarm just reuse them - you can save $15 !
These bolts are stretch torque per spec, never to be reused. but you want to gamble hundreds of $$ and your health to save $15 - go ahead
These bolts are stretch torque per spec, never to be reused. but you want to gamble hundreds of $$ and your health to save $15 - go ahead
I was checking the size of the pulley bolts in the microfische last night for another reason and noticed they are specified with a lockpatch. That pre-applied locking compound is very likely the reason for the bolt replacement procedure in the servoce manual. I would bet good money that the bolts are perfectly fine for multiple reuse as long as there is fresh threadlocker applied for each use.
#22
All the torque-to-yield bolts I've encountered had AT MINIMUM a torque + angle (ie, 75lb-ft + 45 degrees) spec in the manual. Some have a direct length measurement (like rod bolts). This is because as the bolts stretch, the torque plateaus (sometimes even falls off) and a direct torque value becomes nearly useless. We have a relatively broad range of direct torque for the spec...but whatever.
I don't use the stock bolts...or hub...or pulley... No skin off my nose either way.
I don't use the stock bolts...or hub...or pulley... No skin off my nose either way.
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toddskill (06-13-2019)
#23
Yeah, I'd love to see any CREDITABLE info directly supporting the idea that they are torque-to-yield bolts...(Direct Support, not a "One Time Use" phrase in a manual). Over the years The FSM has transitioned from some sort of "Re-use" Policy to "One-Time Use". Along with others, I think it's a "eliminate variables" that could possibly cause problems by just telling everyone to install new bolts...Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I have NO problem with people replacing bolts, Probably a good idea. Everyone can weigh it out for themselves
For one Example...Here's MY post I made 1-1/2 years ago (Sportster Forum) regarding a thread Titled: Rear sprocket bolts, are they one use only?
I have NO problem with people replacing bolts, Probably a good idea. Everyone can weigh it out for themselves
For one Example...Here's MY post I made 1-1/2 years ago (Sportster Forum) regarding a thread Titled: Rear sprocket bolts, are they one use only?
By recommending NEW bolts, it's a Win-Win for everybody. Eliminates some possible failures caused by installer error. Plus the MoCo makes a little more $
Up to some point HD would just instruct you to apply LocTite to your original bolts. See excerpt 2006 Sportster SM.
Then changed sometime after that to one-time use. See excerpt 2009 Sportster SM.
By recommending new bolts which already have a dry patch thread lock, they eliminated the concern with the installer cleaning bolt and wheel threads and the application of LocTite.
They have also reduced the possible failure from bolt material failure. In fact they had addressed that in an earlier "Touring" SM, by recommending that bolts are replaced after 3 uses. See See excerpt 2006 Touring SM.
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Up to some point HD would just instruct you to apply LocTite to your original bolts. See excerpt 2006 Sportster SM.
Then changed sometime after that to one-time use. See excerpt 2009 Sportster SM.
By recommending new bolts which already have a dry patch thread lock, they eliminated the concern with the installer cleaning bolt and wheel threads and the application of LocTite.
They have also reduced the possible failure from bolt material failure. In fact they had addressed that in an earlier "Touring" SM, by recommending that bolts are replaced after 3 uses. See See excerpt 2006 Touring SM.
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Last edited by multihdrdr; 09-05-2017 at 07:35 PM.
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Greezey Rider (06-14-2019),
Max Headflow (09-06-2017)
#24
Yeah, I'd love to see any CREDITABLE info directly supporting the idea that they are torque-to-yield bolts...(Direct Support, not a "One Time Use" phrase in a manual). Over the years The FSM has transitioned from some sort of "Re-use" Policy to "One-Time Use". Along with others, I think it's a "eliminate variables" that could possibly cause problems by just telling everyone to install new bolts...Not that there's anything wrong with that.
I have NO problem with people replacing bolts, Probably a good idea. Everyone can weigh it out for themselves
For one Example...Here's post (Sportster Forum) I made 1-1/2 years ago regarding a thread Titled: Rear sprocket bolts, are they one use only?
I have NO problem with people replacing bolts, Probably a good idea. Everyone can weigh it out for themselves
For one Example...Here's post (Sportster Forum) I made 1-1/2 years ago regarding a thread Titled: Rear sprocket bolts, are they one use only?
2003 Touring SM page 2-14
Last edited by Ron750; 09-05-2017 at 07:29 PM.
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#25
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#26
From a manufacturing/warranty/service policy perspective, it's a no-brainer. Lockpatch fasteners are specified and that's what the service department orders/stocks. ...snip... Mike laid it out nicely above. no point in me rehashing.
We're not Factory Service and don't have a line in to the engineers so it's really all up to us, as individuals, to decide how to proceed.
An inexperienced wrench should definitely follow the service manual, but more experienced folks will be able to find errors and shortcuts in the official documents based on years of experience...often in multiple fields/applications.
It's really just mental masturbation at this point.
Sploosh.
#27
The witness marks are a good idea. I'll definitely do that going forward.
I should have worded my earlier post better when I said visually. I did check for snugness about 1500 miles ago when I swapped shocks. But I didn't use a torque wrench and certainly didn't back them out to check for loctite.
Im waiting on a thin 36mm wrench as I can't get my socket on the axle nut. The wheel is completely trashed though.
Looks like they rattled for a while..
#28
Ouch! That happened to me on my Ducati once, many years ago. At high speed out on a country road, the back wheel suddenly locked up solid! By the time I drifted the thing to a stop, the tire was charred and horribly flat-spotted down to the carcass. I shat myself!
It seemed the bolts had loosened just enough to put a shearing load on them, and... ka-bang. After that, any bolt that is torqued enough to stretch the metal, particularly one that has any kind of shearing force applied (brake disk bolts, pully/sprockets etc), I replace them every time, and check their torques every few thousand kms...
Cheap insurance, plus I usually add a couple of the old ones to my bag-of-spare-bolts that gets thrown into my bags when I go touring.
I still remember the long walk to the next town's gas station to beg for random bolts, and changing out the back wheel on the gravel beside the single-lane, while massive Road Trains full of stinky sheep roared past at 100kph, then limping home after. Not fun!
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It seemed the bolts had loosened just enough to put a shearing load on them, and... ka-bang. After that, any bolt that is torqued enough to stretch the metal, particularly one that has any kind of shearing force applied (brake disk bolts, pully/sprockets etc), I replace them every time, and check their torques every few thousand kms...
Cheap insurance, plus I usually add a couple of the old ones to my bag-of-spare-bolts that gets thrown into my bags when I go touring.
I still remember the long walk to the next town's gas station to beg for random bolts, and changing out the back wheel on the gravel beside the single-lane, while massive Road Trains full of stinky sheep roared past at 100kph, then limping home after. Not fun!
.
#29
#30
I've seen a lot of failed and ****ed up pulleys because people reuse bolts or don't follow procedure from manual or use bolts of incorrect size. Don't give advise that can land people in whole world of trouble
All the torque-to-yield bolts I've encountered had AT MINIMUM a torque + angle (ie, 75lb-ft + 45 degrees) spec in the manual. Some have a direct length measurement (like rod bolts). This is because as the bolts stretch, the torque plateaus (sometimes even falls off) and a direct torque value becomes nearly useless. We have a relatively broad range of direct torque for the spec...but whatever.
I don't use the stock bolts...or hub...or pulley... No skin off my nose either way.
I don't use the stock bolts...or hub...or pulley... No skin off my nose either way.