Dyna Glide Models Super Glide, Super Glide Sport, Super Glide Custom, Dyna Glide Convertible, Super Glide T-Sport, Dyna Glide Police, Dyna Switchback, Low Rider, Street Bob, Fat Bob and Wide Glide.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Flywheel Runout over .020.

  #21  
Old 12-07-2018, 06:43 AM
MMH's Avatar
MMH
MMH is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 433
Received 56 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Kingglide549
I have to fault the S&S test -
as a welder, all that was is a surface pass no root involved .
IOW it was not even close to a proper weld, in either test .
If the pin fit is improper, then sure, welding will help. Maybe lot of stock Harley pins have a loose fit.

If the pin fit is correct, and the material is inferior (not meaning bad quality but lower strength), the best weld in the world will not improve the strength as compared to a proper fit, higher strength pin/flywheel. One benefit of higher strength materials is that they support more interference (between the pin and the flywheel) which sustains more torque before slipping. Furthermore, with tighter tolerance control, higher nominal interference can be used without fear of exceeding the yield strength. This further would increase the torque that the pin could take before slipping.

 
  #22  
Old 12-07-2018, 06:48 AM
MMH's Avatar
MMH
MMH is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 433
Received 56 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by joe40x
TIR is the run out of just the flywheel assm. Actual is with the flywheel installed in the case.
OK, so why would that make a difference unless there is something seriously wrong with the case. I guess that the machine shop can pull the crank & put it in some calibrated v-blocks but how many shops do that?
 
The following users liked this post:
Kingglide549 (12-07-2018)
  #23  
Old 12-07-2018, 06:57 AM
ROCKOUT Rocker Products's Avatar
ROCKOUT Rocker Products
ROCKOUT Rocker Products is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 8,529
Received 1,628 Likes on 1,176 Posts
Default

TIR is Total Indicator Reading..... from min to max. Actual runout is the distance from the nominal to the min or max.

__________________________________________________ ____
For ROCKOUT information & purchasing please click HERE For all Twin Cams and Evo Big Twins & Sportsters
 
__________________
NO, they DON'T all do that!
ROCKOUT rocker shaft inserts... make the tapping STOP! From the guy that FOUND and CURED the problem NO ONE ELSE COULD, thank you for your support!
Ordering & info http://www.rockout.biz On ebay! ... CLICK HERE
Also on amazon.com...
Imitated, never equaled... ROCKOUTS!


The following 2 users liked this post by ROCKOUT Rocker Products:
crusader1xxx (12-07-2018), Huggerbugger (12-07-2018)
  #24  
Old 12-07-2018, 07:09 AM
MMH's Avatar
MMH
MMH is offline
Tourer
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 433
Received 56 Likes on 42 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by ROCKOUT Rocker Products
TIR is Total Indicator Reading..... from min to max. Actual runout is the distance from the nominal to the min or max.
So actual runout is theoretical? Otherwise how do you establish a datum for your zero nominal condition? CMM?
 
The following users liked this post:
Huggerbugger (12-07-2018)
  #25  
Old 12-07-2018, 07:57 AM
Kingglide549's Avatar
Kingglide549
Kingglide549 is offline
Banned
Join Date: May 2018
Location: Viet Vet, crossroads
Posts: 4,576
Received 969 Likes on 694 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MMH
If the pin fit is improper, then sure, welding will help. Maybe lot of stock Harley pins have a loose fit.

If the pin fit is correct, and the material is inferior (not meaning bad quality but lower strength), the best weld in the world will not improve the strength as compared to a proper fit, higher strength pin/flywheel. One benefit of higher strength materials is that they support more interference (between the pin and the flywheel) which sustains more torque before slipping. Furthermore, with tighter tolerance control, higher nominal interference can be used without fear of exceeding the yield strength. This further would increase the torque that the pin could take before slipping.
I disagree-

I can and most welders could weld that so something else will fail, not the weld.
Yes the original steel is probably crap- if the interference is correct the failure should be with the original material.
Not the press.
That said, an interference fit is only as good as the parts and , machining involved.
I was told the HD wheels (crank) are now made offshore, which would explain a lot.
 
  #26  
Old 12-07-2018, 07:57 AM
ROCKOUT Rocker Products's Avatar
ROCKOUT Rocker Products
ROCKOUT Rocker Products is offline
Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: SF Bay area
Posts: 8,529
Received 1,628 Likes on 1,176 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by MMH
So actual runout is theoretical? Otherwise how do you establish a datum for your zero nominal condition? CMM?
I was in a bit of a hurry... sorry if I gave a misleading definition.

Runout basically is at any point along the feature, independent of any other point. TIR is at ALL points along the feature, inclusive. If you picture a crank that has shifted, AND the output section is bent.... runout will be less than TIR as the latter is from the lowest low to the highest high along the entire distance.

__________________________________________________ ____
For ROCKOUT information & purchasing please click HERE For all Twin Cams and Evo Big Twins & Sportsters
 
  #27  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:03 AM
Campy Roadie's Avatar
Campy Roadie
Campy Roadie is offline
Seasoned HDF Member

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 11,793
Received 5,063 Likes on 2,501 Posts
Default

Deleted
 

Last edited by Campy Roadie; 12-07-2018 at 09:05 AM.
  #28  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:35 AM
Blue Bob's Avatar
Blue Bob
Blue Bob is offline
Road Warrior
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Lawrenceville Ga.
Posts: 1,706
Received 1,013 Likes on 602 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Max Headflow
How many HD flywheels have you had welded? I've only done one and welds cracked. A GS1000 is not the same as a HD. Yes I've seen Jap bikes welded but they don't run the level of interface fit plus use better steel, Loads are much higher compared to the GS when you factor in surface area of the pin.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkLUWqnk9s4&t=92s
As I said before if the crank is in good overall condition I would pin and weld this is not the same as just a surface weld.

TIR total indicated run out. So if the needle swings .020" the actual run out is .010"

Also I certainly know the difference between a multi piece ball bearing crank and a Harley single pin crank....Just put the GS1000 experience in the post as a caveat as to the pain I went thru.
 
The following users liked this post:
crusader1xxx (12-07-2018)
  #29  
Old 12-07-2018, 09:58 AM
Jackie Paper's Avatar
Jackie Paper
Jackie Paper is offline
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Honah Lee
Posts: 34,182
Received 4,524 Likes on 3,777 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Blue Bob
As I said before if the crank is in good overall condition I would pin and weld this is not the same as just a surface weld.

TIR total indicated run out. So if the needle swings .020" the actual run out is .010"

Also I certainly know the difference between a multi piece ball bearing crank and a Harley single pin crank....Just put the GS1000 experience in the post as a caveat as to the pain I went thru.
Most set the needle on 0 at the low point. Then, if it goes to .020 on a .001 increment indicator, then it is .020. But even if you did not do that, it is still .020, just a little more thought would need to go into what you are seeing. It's is possible to get a .020 indicator travel and not be .020 total but only if the shaft you are indicating is bent which I would not think this is the case here. When the two large flywheels turn on the center pin, it basically moves the cam sprocket shaft and the opposite side primary sprocket shaft off from the same centerline.
That much would surely put a bind on the crank bearings if it was scissored.

Keep in mind, a straight true shaft in a close tolerance bearing like a ball bearing when turned will always be true. A TC crank is pressed together. The sprockets drive is very tolerant of runout. .012 hurts nothing out on the end and that is the manual spec..020 would be OK if it was just the cam sprocket shaft
 

Last edited by Jackie Paper; 12-07-2018 at 10:00 AM.
  #30  
Old 12-07-2018, 10:00 AM
Max Headflow's Avatar
Max Headflow
Max Headflow is online now
Seasoned HDF Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: poway
Posts: 16,044
Received 5,223 Likes on 3,607 Posts
Default

Originally Posted by Kingglide549
I have to fault the S&S test -
as a welder, all that was is a surface pass no root involved .
IOW it was not even close to a proper weld, in either test .
Well that means that you need to V out location of the weld and fill. Unfortunately no one does it. The pin is hardened and would be hard on tooling (even carbide). It you did you'd still likely have issues as when welding, the press fit relaxes. The best way to tighten the fit is with a steel plug on the ID of the pin and use the best materials you can get for the wheels. Or use a forged one piece crank.
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: Flywheel Runout over .020.



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:45 PM.