oil relief spring
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 396
Likes: 20
From: Maple Ridge BC & Chiangmai
oil relief spring
2008 Road King so the new higher flow pump and hydraulic chain adjusters.
I am opening up the cam chest for a Woods 777 cam change at 85,000 miles and only want to do it once
From reading the threads:
Are all the aftermarket relief springs created equal?
Is the Axtell spring/bypass system better? If so is it recommended on a warmed over street bike
How much pressure is too much given the hydraulic cam chain adjusters?
Surely if something as simple as a higher rate spring was better the factory engineers would have thought of it?
I am opening up the cam chest for a Woods 777 cam change at 85,000 miles and only want to do it once
From reading the threads:
Are all the aftermarket relief springs created equal?
Is the Axtell spring/bypass system better? If so is it recommended on a warmed over street bike
How much pressure is too much given the hydraulic cam chain adjusters?
Surely if something as simple as a higher rate spring was better the factory engineers would have thought of it?
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
You don't need any extra "stuff" with the new pump; more than adequate for the job. Lots of solutions from HD and the aftermarket for problems we don't have......
EDIT: Remember that the HD oiling system is based on volume, not pressure. All the HD TC motor needs is decent pressure, good scavenging from the crank case and good flow, all of which are delivered quite nicely with OEM parts.
EDIT: Remember that the HD oiling system is based on volume, not pressure. All the HD TC motor needs is decent pressure, good scavenging from the crank case and good flow, all of which are delivered quite nicely with OEM parts.
Last edited by djl; Dec 29, 2016 at 07:42 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 157,524
Likes: 57,081
From: Michigan 15 Minutes East Of Hell
Haven't used them ... Can't say I recommend them ... But here is an alternative.
http://www.baisley.com/oil_spring_product.htm
http://www.baisley.com/oil_spring_product.htm
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 396
Likes: 20
From: Maple Ridge BC & Chiangmai
Haven't used them ... Can't say I recommend them ... But here is an alternative.
http://www.baisley.com/oil_spring_product.htm
http://www.baisley.com/oil_spring_product.htm
As djl says, our systems are all about flow and scavenging, not pressure. I already have the later 07+ high flow pump.
My interest lies in the ramp profile of the Woods 777 cams and the ability of the lifters to follow that ramp given low oil pressure. At the same time I am thinking of Johnson "slow bleed" lifters to help with the cam ramps but wonder if more oil pressure is needed too.
Woods cams are purported to be "noisy" so I am trying to address this now rather than moan about it later.
Secondary concern is how much pressure is too much given that the hydraulic chain tensioners will be exerting more tension than designed.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
That is one of the springs I was talking about.
As djl says, our systems are all about flow and scavenging, not pressure. I already have the later 07+ high flow pump. My interest lies in the ramp profile of the Woods 777 cams and the ability of the lifters to follow that ramp given low oil pressure. At the same time I am thinking of Johnson "slow bleed" lifters to help with the cam ramps but wonder if more oil pressure is needed too. Woods cams are purported to be "noisy" so I am trying to address this now rather than moan about it later.
Secondary concern is how much pressure is too much given that the hydraulic chain tensioners will be exerting more tension than designed.
As djl says, our systems are all about flow and scavenging, not pressure. I already have the later 07+ high flow pump. My interest lies in the ramp profile of the Woods 777 cams and the ability of the lifters to follow that ramp given low oil pressure. At the same time I am thinking of Johnson "slow bleed" lifters to help with the cam ramps but wonder if more oil pressure is needed too. Woods cams are purported to be "noisy" so I am trying to address this now rather than moan about it later.
Secondary concern is how much pressure is too much given that the hydraulic chain tensioners will be exerting more tension than designed.
The Baisley spring was designed for the early cam plates when we were using washers to increase the spring pressure. Oil pressure in some early models would drop to 3psi at hot idle; sometimes the oil pressure light would blink on and off. The Baisley spring cam along to increase idle and low rpm pressure with no effect on oil pressure at higher rpms.
Last edited by djl; Dec 29, 2016 at 09:00 PM.
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 396
Likes: 20
From: Maple Ridge BC & Chiangmai
OK got it and thanks to all
I am leaning towards no spring, SE high volume pump, and S&S lifters
I am leaning towards no spring, SE high volume pump, and S&S lifters
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Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2016
Posts: 713
Likes: 203
From: The Nature Coast, FL
I think you are anticipating a problem that does not exist. True Woods cam ramps are fast but, from what I understand, the 222 and 777 profiles are not as radical as some of his earlier cams. Lots of his 777s running in mild builds with no issues. Better to focus on using a lifter designed for the application like Woods Directional or the S&S Premiums. Maybe the Johnson "slow bleed" lifters will work as well; don't know as I haven't used them.
The Baisley spring was designed for the early cam plates when we were using washers to increase the spring pressure. Oil pressure in some early models would drop to 3psi at hot idle; sometimes the oil pressure light would blink on and off. The Baisley spring cam along to increase idle and low rpm pressure with no effect on oil pressure at higher rpms.
The Baisley spring was designed for the early cam plates when we were using washers to increase the spring pressure. Oil pressure in some early models would drop to 3psi at hot idle; sometimes the oil pressure light would blink on and off. The Baisley spring cam along to increase idle and low rpm pressure with no effect on oil pressure at higher rpms.
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HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,776
Likes: 2,607
From: san antonio
So would the Baisley spring be beneficial for an '06 Ultra? I already have all the parts on the way to install a TW21 including S&S lifters and replacing tensioners with Cyco shoes. I was just researching this today. I have not had a problem with the oil light coming on, but it does drop low when @ running temps
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,630
Likes: 185
From: Mountain West, Big Sky Country
i put the 15% basiley spring in every twin cam i open the cam chest on.
i have it in a 96, a 107, and 120R. the spring in my opinion helps at idle and low RPM. at high RPM, the spring does not impact pressure.
i have woods cams in 2 of the 3 bikes with no noise. 1 bike has gear drive cams. the most you can hear is the gears.
while everyone makes their own choice, for 12 dollars. i think its an easy fix, regardless of which oil pump, cam shoes or lifters you use.
i have it in a 96, a 107, and 120R. the spring in my opinion helps at idle and low RPM. at high RPM, the spring does not impact pressure.
i have woods cams in 2 of the 3 bikes with no noise. 1 bike has gear drive cams. the most you can hear is the gears.
while everyone makes their own choice, for 12 dollars. i think its an easy fix, regardless of which oil pump, cam shoes or lifters you use.