Rough running after engine upgrades.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,857
Likes: 1,184
From: florida
you need to map the fuel,,,,get it tuned after you are sure of no mechanical defect.
m
i would suspect that after your one mile, the lifters bled all the way down, hence negating your adjustment, since there is still more lifter travel available in the stroke of the lifter. the whole point of.90-.100 is to put the the pushrod in the center of the available travel of the internals for the lifter so that you can get maximum use of the hydraulic adjustability.
m
i would suspect that after your one mile, the lifters bled all the way down, hence negating your adjustment, since there is still more lifter travel available in the stroke of the lifter. the whole point of.90-.100 is to put the the pushrod in the center of the available travel of the internals for the lifter so that you can get maximum use of the hydraulic adjustability.
Last edited by marcodarq; Apr 27, 2018 at 01:18 PM.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,962
Likes: 8,056
From: poway
Is it possible that you failed to install the O ring that goes between the oil pump and the crankcase? Also, some Fueling pumps use a small tube to make the connection. Did you install that tube? It appears that oil pump might not be able pump oil out of the motor. That would make the motor run sluggish. Also with a fueling pump on a softail, if the bike sits for any period of time the oil will flow from the tank and into the motor. You will need to start the bike and let idle for a while then shut off before checking the oil.
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no upper end noise is good, shows the lifters are not collapsing but: does not mean they are staying pumped up. when you added preload, you also added lift and if the lifter had good oil flow and stayed pumped up then you had power. if for some reason, oil flow through the lifter is compromised, it will bleed off and possibly have enough cushion to stop lifter clatter but not enough lift to fully open the valve and it falls flat.
for grins and giggles, do a redneck test: operated the machine like a set of solid lifters by removing plunger stroke and setting p/r's with free spin. now run the machine a short distance and see if power stays since the valves are being fully lifted. if so, track down issue. with a two lunger engine, losing 1 jug makes a big diff.
also of note is if the lifter fails to bleed off under stroke pressure, if the setting allows for it, the valve will be off seat and if on the intake, the feedback to the manifold will kill the intake track, did you try and see what kind of vacuum signal it has, that will tell a lot but with the hd, you will probably need a snubber to reduce needle swing.
for grins and giggles, do a redneck test: operated the machine like a set of solid lifters by removing plunger stroke and setting p/r's with free spin. now run the machine a short distance and see if power stays since the valves are being fully lifted. if so, track down issue. with a two lunger engine, losing 1 jug makes a big diff.
also of note is if the lifter fails to bleed off under stroke pressure, if the setting allows for it, the valve will be off seat and if on the intake, the feedback to the manifold will kill the intake track, did you try and see what kind of vacuum signal it has, that will tell a lot but with the hd, you will probably need a snubber to reduce needle swing.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 19,962
Likes: 8,056
From: poway
no upper end noise is good, shows the lifters are not collapsing but: does not mean they are staying pumped up. when you added preload, you also added lift and if the lifter had good oil flow and stayed pumped up then you had power. if for some reason, oil flow through the lifter is compromised, it will bleed off and possibly have enough cushion to stop lifter clatter but not enough lift to fully open the valve and it falls flat.
for grins and giggles, do a redneck test: operated the machine like a set of solid lifters by removing plunger stroke and setting p/r's with free spin. now run the machine a short distance and see if power stays since the valves are being fully lifted. if so, track down issue. with a two lunger engine, losing 1 jug makes a big diff.
also of note is if the lifter fails to bleed off under stroke pressure, if the setting allows for it, the valve will be off seat and if on the intake, the feedback to the manifold will kill the intake track, did you try and see what kind of vacuum signal it has, that will tell a lot but with the hd, you will probably need a snubber to reduce needle swing.
for grins and giggles, do a redneck test: operated the machine like a set of solid lifters by removing plunger stroke and setting p/r's with free spin. now run the machine a short distance and see if power stays since the valves are being fully lifted. if so, track down issue. with a two lunger engine, losing 1 jug makes a big diff.
also of note is if the lifter fails to bleed off under stroke pressure, if the setting allows for it, the valve will be off seat and if on the intake, the feedback to the manifold will kill the intake track, did you try and see what kind of vacuum signal it has, that will tell a lot but with the hd, you will probably need a snubber to reduce needle swing.
Also I've yet to see a lifter that fails to bleed off but if stuck, they won't hole the valve off the seat. As the motor warms up, cylinders expand more than pushrods and lifters need to take up the slack.. I suppose you could have an issue where a lifter stuck when hot. If you did, the sticking would like cause hard starting when cool.
Adjusting off bottomed is not a bad idea if you are getting lifter collapse tho..
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2005
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From: poway
Marcelm could try a compression check.. There is a plug in the bottom of the crankcase that can be pulled to check the amount of oil in the motor. You should see less than 250ccs .. I've not pulled the plug but others have. I'd make sure that motor is warm and work the plug out slowly.. On install be careful not to install too tight as you can crack the engine case.
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Joined: Aug 2008
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just throwing out scenarios.
there is no harm running the lifter bottomed out for a test as long as you have some stem clearance, this will eliminate possibilities of some issues. i run S&S htl2 spacers which are near zero lash even up to 7.5k.
my point is that if there is no good oil flow, the lifter will not function and this would include foamy oil. whether he has issues, or not is yet to be determined. seems strange that it works good for a time and then falls flat, i assume he has run ign and inj tests so why not test valve action. if it scats like a cat out of hell, rules out ign and inj for sure.
on the c/c plug, if it never was out, heat it up, it does have locker on it. if it is sumped, it would display issues from the get-go, isn't likely for it to pump dry and flood as he is describing the issue(oil bag should tell that story). although sumped oil offers resistance, not likely to kill power seriously and if the jugs are flooding, doubt oil control will work well and it would smoke. but murphy' law, never say never.
there is no harm running the lifter bottomed out for a test as long as you have some stem clearance, this will eliminate possibilities of some issues. i run S&S htl2 spacers which are near zero lash even up to 7.5k.
my point is that if there is no good oil flow, the lifter will not function and this would include foamy oil. whether he has issues, or not is yet to be determined. seems strange that it works good for a time and then falls flat, i assume he has run ign and inj tests so why not test valve action. if it scats like a cat out of hell, rules out ign and inj for sure.
on the c/c plug, if it never was out, heat it up, it does have locker on it. if it is sumped, it would display issues from the get-go, isn't likely for it to pump dry and flood as he is describing the issue(oil bag should tell that story). although sumped oil offers resistance, not likely to kill power seriously and if the jugs are flooding, doubt oil control will work well and it would smoke. but murphy' law, never say never.
Last edited by bustert; Apr 29, 2018 at 01:50 PM.
Thank you guys for help.
My friend said that he installed correctly the fuel pump, including that o-ring.
He also pulled the plug from the bottom of crankcase and the qty of oil were correct, he did this before already.
Doing a compression test, we can see if the valves are closing, right ? because the bike has not many km, cannot be worn, right ?
The oil pressure gauge shows 5 bar when starting at cold. We think there is enough oil pressure, assume oil pump works ok ... Oil is Redline 20W50.
Maybe the lifters from Feuling are not OK, they were not the most expensive ones...
We think to buy new lifters, what do you think ?
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/series-2...r-lifters.html
My friend said that he installed correctly the fuel pump, including that o-ring.
He also pulled the plug from the bottom of crankcase and the qty of oil were correct, he did this before already.
Doing a compression test, we can see if the valves are closing, right ? because the bike has not many km, cannot be worn, right ?
The oil pressure gauge shows 5 bar when starting at cold. We think there is enough oil pressure, assume oil pump works ok ... Oil is Redline 20W50.
Maybe the lifters from Feuling are not OK, they were not the most expensive ones...
We think to buy new lifters, what do you think ?
https://www.fuelmotousa.com/series-2...r-lifters.html
Last edited by marcelm; Apr 30, 2018 at 04:45 AM.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2014
Posts: 3,857
Likes: 1,184
From: florida
Do compression and leakdown tests to confirm the sealing integrity of both cylinders.
Do hot and cold oil pressure test. With pushrods adjusted according to the instructions.
You need to know that these areas are not the problem and these are them tests.
Once you know this info, we can move on to the next steps.
M
Do hot and cold oil pressure test. With pushrods adjusted according to the instructions.
You need to know that these areas are not the problem and these are them tests.
Once you know this info, we can move on to the next steps.
M
Last edited by marcodarq; Apr 30, 2018 at 08:37 AM.
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