Cam Chest Refresh
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From: Poolville
You stated that S&S didn't spec out what happened at 2000 rpm... To be honest with you, I'd be more concerned about the cold start because we all know that that's when the most damage is done to a motor....
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From: Globe AZ
yes and no about the cold start. The oil to the rocket boxes serves mostly a cooling function. Rocker arms and springs don't need that much oil, and that said, the S&S test was with 13.5psi at 175 degrees. Not exactly a cold start test either. It was a hot idle test. Any lube the top end has at startup is what was left there at shutdown, not so much what is pumped up there immediately on startup.
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From: Globe AZ
ok. just got done installing MOST of the stuff that I got. I ended up NOT using the Crane Chevy lifters. I went to bleed them out last night, and 2/4 were gritty feeling, and just did not leave a good taste in my mouth. I ended up getting another set of stockers from my local dealer. I know, I know, but short notice. Bike torn down in the parking lot of my apartment complex doesnt leave a whole lot of options. Ill change them out when they get noisy again. The rest of the job went smooth. the Feuling tensioner shoes were definitely needed, the stock hydraulic shoes were shot. Remember, this bike is fuel injected, and so uses the original design flat link **** chain. these eat the hydraulic tensioner shoes just as much as the spring loaded ones. 35k miles and they were half worn though. Next time I change the shoes, Ill change for a new set of cam chains, these are getting a bit sloppy, and have nearly 100k on them. they did their fair share..... Onto the Baisley spring and plunger. Easy peasy install, and I now have about 45psi at stone cold idle, and when I parked it after a short ride to bleed out the lifters, I still had better than 32. I need to run it a bit and see what it produces when HOT, Im hoping that its better than the **** poor showing that I had before. I know that these engines run on volume, but any time the bypass is operating, thats lost volume to the pump inlet, not going to the rest of the motor. the pump gets enough lube already, the rest of the motor is what needs it.
6th Gear
Joined: Feb 2019
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From: MO
Just called Crane and they said the hole diameter on this lifter is .080"
They also said that they don't make that one, so they had to go measure it by hand.
Doing some calculations:
The stock lifter oil hole (.100") has .007853 in^2 area
The Crane/LS1 lifters, at .080" or .070" per that picture above, have .005027 or .003848 respectively. (64% and 49% of the original areas respectively)
You have to think that the oil system in a twin cam runs at relatively low psi, 5-10 psi at idle. If you restrict the lifter oil hole by over half the area, the oil will find somewhere else to go, as the other holes the oil goes to in the engine haven't changed sizes. As seen in the S&S video, this could result in a lack of oil flowing to the rocker box/ no bueno.
I was considering saving the ~$50 by using the chevy lifters, but after crunching the numbers, I will buy the motorcycle lifters.
They also said that they don't make that one, so they had to go measure it by hand.
Doing some calculations:
The stock lifter oil hole (.100") has .007853 in^2 area
The Crane/LS1 lifters, at .080" or .070" per that picture above, have .005027 or .003848 respectively. (64% and 49% of the original areas respectively)
You have to think that the oil system in a twin cam runs at relatively low psi, 5-10 psi at idle. If you restrict the lifter oil hole by over half the area, the oil will find somewhere else to go, as the other holes the oil goes to in the engine haven't changed sizes. As seen in the S&S video, this could result in a lack of oil flowing to the rocker box/ no bueno.
I was considering saving the ~$50 by using the chevy lifters, but after crunching the numbers, I will buy the motorcycle lifters.
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From: poway
yes and no about the cold start. The oil to the rocket boxes serves mostly a cooling function. Rocker arms and springs don't need that much oil, and that said, the S&S test was with 13.5psi at 175 degrees. Not exactly a cold start test either. It was a hot idle test. Any lube the top end has at startup is what was left there at shutdown, not so much what is pumped up there immediately on startup.
Not really. It's more of a heating function..
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From: poway
Crane 10530s are good lifters. If you want more oil, pull the cups and of the other lifters (c?) and put them in the 10530s. I know B cups will work. I've use low flow Johnson Hylifts and Comp cams 875s without issue. Gone though 3 sets of the 875s without any top ends burning up. I do use a good synthetic tho.
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Joined: Jun 2017
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From: Granville New York
I took out at around 36k next to a fueling shoe that was in my bike for about 6500 miles. I wouldn't use fueling if they were free...needless to say they're not going back in my bike. I hope you have better luck with yours.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2017
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From: Globe AZ
interesting.... Problem is, there arent too many places that make the replacement shoes for the hydraulic tensioners that I found. Also, IIRC, at least with the newer roller chain, the shoes will wear until the rollers contact, then pretty much stop. I dont have that issue, I still have the shitty flat link chains on mine (fuel injected, need the cam sensor sprocket), so my shoes keep wearing ALL THE TIME. I dont have pics, as I shitcanned the old parts, but the hydraulic shoes looked like what you see with the spring loaded ones, and were worn about half through (wear limit). Ill keep an eye on these for sure, but at least for now, they are in better shape than what was removed.
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Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2017
Posts: 9,604
Likes: 20,706
From: Globe AZ
Crane 10530s are good lifters. If you want more oil, pull the cups and of the other lifters (c?) and put them in the 10530s. I know B cups will work. I've use low flow Johnson Hylifts and Comp cams 875s without issue. Gone though 3 sets of the 875s without any top ends burning up. I do use a good synthetic tho.
unfortunately replacing the cups is not a possiblilty with the "C" lifters that I had. totally different design internally. Here are some pics to hopefully clarify
First up is the Harley "C" lifter
[img]
[img]
Oil hole in the side of the "C" lifter. this measures about .072". this will be the bottleneck in the oil flow puzzle. IIRC, you cant flow more through the system than the smallest orifice
Top part of the plunger/pushrod cup. Oil hole here is .092" this rides directly above the lower cup in the main lifter body
Top view of the pushrod cup. oil hole is the much touted .100"
bottom of the pushrod cup. Note that the "metering disk" is swaged in, and solid. the only oil going through this is from the hole in the side.
lower plunger piece with pushrod cup just above it. this is how it sits in the lifter body
[img]
Axle is held in with a pair of tiny "C" clips and rotates freely in the lifter body. Think of a wristpin, and this is the same. Not the best I think
you can just barely see the rollers in this pic. If one goes to ****, they can easily just fall out. rollers are barely below the side of the body.
Last edited by ScottinAZ; Feb 18, 2019 at 07:59 AM. Reason: added pics