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Engine Mechanical TopicsDiscussion for motor builds, cams, head work, stripped bolts and other engine related issues. The good and the bad. If it goes round and around or up and down, post it here.
ok, some have you may have read my thread on Axtell vs Baisley as far as the oil pump relief goes. Well, I decided to do a bit more in-depth refresh while I have the damn thing open. Its been about 25k since it was initially upgraded, so some stuff is due to get changed
Doing the Baisley LMR-002 spring, along with their popoff valve plunger. This should take care of any unwanted bypassing that is "supposedly" common in both the Screamin Eagle plate which I have and the stock cam plates as well
Feuling cam tensioner shoes. My stock hydraulic shoes, at least the outside one is showing some wear, so Im gonna replace these for cause.
Inner cam bearings. Full compliment bearings, just done for ***** and giggles while there.
New lifters. Went with Crane 10530 (Chevy spec), because they are marked made in USA, and the ones currently in there are Harley "C" spec, made in Mehico crap. again, replacing these for cause.
even if this does NOT cure my noisy cam chest, it will at least provide some peace of mind that the parts are NEW, and of good quality. SInce the engine was "upgraded" at a dealer prior to my purchase, due in part to a noisy cam chest at 65k miles, it was in once about a month after the work was done with a, you guessed it, noisy cam chest, and the dealer said, THEY ALL DO THAT..... its made noise since I have owned it, and its been getting progressively more annoying. Oil is changed religiously every 3k miles, 20-50 in colder weather, straight 60 wt in summer. It is quieter with the heavier oil. Motor is in a 2000 Ultra Classic, 99k miles on it, so not looking to do anything else like hot cams, or a big bore kit at this time. right now it suits my needs and scratches all itches, just want to know the internals are good to go for a while longer. this should do that.
Ive also seen that video. Problem is, they dont say exactly what lifters they are comparing. After checking the internets for days, I couldnt find any instances of a rocker box failure that could be attiributed to lifters. In fact, I couldnt find any instances of a rocker box issue at all. So, I rolled the dice and went with the Crane lifters. from what I could find, there are only a few manufacturers of lifters, and a LOT of re-sellers of those parts. As with most things in life, there is a LOT of propaganda out there, and the truth can be hard to find.
Main issue I have with the video is that they don't specify several things.
first off, what is the flow rate on stock Harlwy lifters. Theirs are specified at 80cc/min, and they say the chevys are 4cc/min. Quite a difference, but what are "high performance"chevys at, and what are stickers at? We don't know.
secondly, at 80cc/ min times 2 lifters, that's 160cc/min to each head. What us the ability to drain that much oil back to the crankcase without overwhelming the breathers and puking oil? More isn't better in this case.
Don't get me wrong, S&S are some of the best, but at 4x the cost, I cannot justify it for a refresh on a 100k motor. That coupled with a lack of total information in the video, I went with my gut and got something I know is USA made (same as the respected Harley "B" lifter), that should take me for several years. Remember, stickers are made by Delphi, which up until a few years ago was Delco, and was/is owned by GM. My bet is that the stickers are an off the shelf GM (of one flavor or another) lifter. Like any vendor sourced item not all are equal, and there are going to be slight variations between them. What would tell the tale truly is a side by side on ALL the different mfg lifters, along with flow rates, port sizes, etc..... but i doubt we will see that.
Note the difference in the orifice in the piddle valve and that the 'B' lifter has a larger opening; not throwing shade on the GM lifter but pointing our a difference. One has to remember that the HD oiling system relies on volume and flow, unlike the GM system relies as much on pressure to distribute oil. IIRC, the S&S Premium lifters are also made in the USA; seems to be some debate on the Standards though regarding source of supply.
Note the difference in the orifice in the piddle valve and that the 'B' lifter has a larger opening; not throwing shade on the GM lifter but pointing our a difference. One has to remember that the HD oiling system relies on volume and flow, unlike the GM system relies as much on pressure to distribute oil. IIRC, the S&S Premium lifters are also made in the USA; seems to be some debate on the Standards though regarding source of supply.
yep, seen this pic as well. Don't yet know what the Crane lifters will have for an orifice size, jor what the matching orifices size is on the stock fixed length pushrod. I DO plan on measuring both though. If I feel it's appropriate, and the stock lifters have the larger size orifices (c spec in there now with no top end oiling issues) I'll drill them out.
also, I am doing the bypass upgrade, so flow, along with pressure should not be an issue. That brings up the last issue I had with the S&S video, it was only tested at idle of 1000 rpm at 175 degrees oil. What are the characteristics of both lifters at 2000 rpm at 32psi (harley oil pressure spec). My engine spends a shitload more time above idle than it does at idle. Again, not saying anything bad about their products, if this was a no holds barred build, theirs would likely be going in. This is a refresh of a 100k mile motor that is bone stock. As long as the chevys meet factory flow characteristics, and don't sound like rocks in a coffee can, I'm happy.
Last edited by ScottinAZ; Feb 5, 2019 at 01:49 PM.
ok things just got a touch more interesting in regards to the lifters I chose.
Seems as of 2009, Crane Cams is OWNED by, you guessed it, S & S Cycle. would be interesting to see exactly how these two lifters match up now. I dont happen to have a spare S&S lifter to break open or measure, but given this new tidbit of info, I WILL be posting pics on the Crane lifter when they get here. All of the above pics and info have been against STOCK Chevy lifters, and not aftermarket. I did come across a thread on another forum that the Crane 10530 lifter was IDENTICAL to the Harley B spec, and also had some well known shops (who shall remain nameless, and have since recanted what they said in that thread https://www.harley-davidsonforums.co...b-lifters.html) stating that they have used the Crane lifters in their builds (since recanted to use S&S). At this point im not real sure what to believe, as far as what is good or not, but what I do have coming has to be better than what I have
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Cam Chest Refresh
