Poor Bertha... stranded with electrical problems...
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 328
Likes: 13
From: Trabuco Canyon, California
It was, Doc. I initially typed "milliamps", but meant "millivolts". But now I think this new multimeter I bought is malfunctioning. It reads about -40 millivolts everywhere now - even when I connect it to my battery directly. I'm taking it back and getting another one tomorrow. I don't trust any results I've gotten with it now... (sigh)
Road Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,123
Likes: 43
From: NJ
If you had it set to milli-amps and put it on the battery with the motor running then you probably toasted the meter or atleast the fuse. The battery in my truck went bad, totally dead, and my buddy could not believe it. So he hooked my meter up to it after we jumped it, of course he had it set wrong and even after replacing the fuse it did not work right except for continuity.
Pop the derby cover and take a wiff of the oil like John said earlier, it really smells bad in there when the stator goes.
Doug
Pop the derby cover and take a wiff of the oil like John said earlier, it really smells bad in there when the stator goes.
Doug
Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,952
Likes: 15
From: Senoia, Ga., by way of Miami, Fl..
It was, Doc. I initially typed "milliamps", but meant "millivolts". But now I think this new multimeter I bought is malfunctioning. It reads about -40 millivolts everywhere now - even when I connect it to my battery directly. I'm taking it back and getting another one tomorrow. I don't trust any results I've gotten with it now... (sigh)
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,877
Likes: 2
From: Hallsville, Tx.
Swapping leads won't matter measuring AC volts, only DC.
Road Captain
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 640
Likes: 13
From: Hickory, NC area
I just want to say, for the record, that I HATE multimeters and have NEVER found success using one. I find them to be nothing but a source of frustration. In the end, I usually just end up replacing stuff until I get to the problem. I just don't get why they have to be so complicated. I suspect it is my lack of understanding, but being a fairly intelligent being you would think it would have "clicked" at some point over the last 25 years of wrenching on things.... but it hasn't. I'm all for smellin' the oil - my nose apparently works better than my brain.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,198
Likes: 3,087
From: NW AR
mjunk1, your problem isn't the multimeter. Your problem is lacking a basic understanding of electricty. Once you understand the physics behind it, then the meter will make sense. It all starts with atomic structure and electrons. That's where you have to start, then work your way up from there. It really isn't complicated or difficult. Electrons flow in a conductor like water in a pipe. Current is the flow rate, measured in Amps. Pressure is measured in Volts. Resistance (to flow) is measured in Ohms. All three are mathmatically related as: Current = pressure divided by resistance, or I=E/R where I is current in Amps, E is voltage (electromotive force) and R is Resistance in Ohms. You can rearrange the numbers with simple Jr.High algebra and solve for any of those in realtion to the other two.
You have to look at what your measuring, think about what it is you want to know, then set your meter to the appropriate scale. Never try to measure ohms on a live circuit. For most users, never use the Amp (current) settings at all.
And as Doug sez, if you have the meter set at current (amps, miliamps) and put it across a voltage source like a battery or the stator (running), then you will blow the meter or at least the fuse in it, or the circuit your testing, depending on what's weakest. Same thing with putting it on Ohms and putting it across a big voltage source. This is a common amateurish mistake, but I've seen professional Maritime Engineers (schoolship boys yet, that is, Maritime Academy graduates) do this regularly. I was on one ship where they blew both of their Simpson meters doing that, then got upset when I wouldn't give them mine to use.
You have to look at what your measuring, think about what it is you want to know, then set your meter to the appropriate scale. Never try to measure ohms on a live circuit. For most users, never use the Amp (current) settings at all.
And as Doug sez, if you have the meter set at current (amps, miliamps) and put it across a voltage source like a battery or the stator (running), then you will blow the meter or at least the fuse in it, or the circuit your testing, depending on what's weakest. Same thing with putting it on Ohms and putting it across a big voltage source. This is a common amateurish mistake, but I've seen professional Maritime Engineers (schoolship boys yet, that is, Maritime Academy graduates) do this regularly. I was on one ship where they blew both of their Simpson meters doing that, then got upset when I wouldn't give them mine to use.
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: North Atlanta Area, GA
OH HELL! I fergot to do that, Dale! Will it make a diffurntz? The horn honks, so WTF? 
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Club Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: North Atlanta Area, GA
It's here! Latest Bertha Test with NEW Multimeter...
JOHN - I also opened up the inspection cover and took a whiff. Smelled like used transmission fluid. Oddly, that's exactly what's in there! MAYBE I smelt a slightly burned odor, but definitely not a "stinking gun"!
Thanks everyone for your help!
Dr.Hess' How To Diagnose Your Charging System
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Exchanged multimeter for a new one today. It's a Radio Shack auto-ranging meter model 22-813. CHECK
OK, with NEW meter... Battery, freshly charged, was 13.93 V with bike off, 12.38 with bike on but not running, 12.37 at idle, and only 12.37 at 2500 RPM.... and going down... FAIL
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead.
Meter again read 0 to 0.1 ohms as it should have... PASS
With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
Meter again read infinity ohms... PASS
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
This time the meter read .2 to .3 ohms... PASS
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
And now what you've all been waiting for... This time, the new meter (set to measure VOLTS) read only 1.3 MILLIVOLTS output at ALL RPMs... TOTAL FAIL!
So it is indeed the stator gone bad with NO OUTPUT AT ALL! I don't really understand why the stator shows the .2 internal ohms in the test but doesn't put out. It's kind of like my ex...
UPDATE FROM LATER FINDINGS: Once I set the multimeter to measure AC Volts, I discovered the stator WAS putting out after all... 20 V at idle and 36-38 V at 2000 RPM. So it was NOT the stator but the regulator!
Buy about a $10-20 digital multi meter. Fully charge the battery (overnight on a 1 Amp charger).
Exchanged multimeter for a new one today. It's a Radio Shack auto-ranging meter model 22-813. CHECK
OK, with NEW meter... Battery, freshly charged, was 13.93 V with bike off, 12.38 with bike on but not running, 12.37 at idle, and only 12.37 at 2500 RPM.... and going down... FAIL
Bike off. Meter set on Ohms, medium-ish scale, like 20K or 200K Ohms max scale, depending on your meter. Pull stator plug. Ground the meter black lead to a good chassis ground, like a bolt or even the battery negative. With the red lead, touch a different part of the bike, like the engine case at an unpainted part or another bolt. Meter should read low ohms, like 0. If it doesn’t, you didn’t ground the black lead.
Meter again read 0 to 0.1 ohms as it should have... PASS
With the red lead, touch each contact on the motor side (stator) of the plug (the part stuck in the case). Depending on if your case has a male or female plug, if you can't see the metal part/pin of the plug, you can put a paper clip in the hole and touch the paperclip with your meter red. Meter reading should be infinity on all pins. If it isn't, your stator is shorted to the case, replace.
Meter again read infinity ohms... PASS
Set meter to lowest ohm scale, like 200 Ohms, typically. (Note: Not 200K ohms). Check resistance between the two stator plug pins. Should be fairly low. My Book says 0.2-0.4 ohms. The spec is in your shop manual. If it is infinity, stator is blown open. If it is 0, stator is shorted to itself.
This time the meter read .2 to .3 ohms... PASS
Set meter to AC Volts, 100V scale. Attach each meter lead to a stator pin. Start bike. Voltage should vary with engine speed. Specs are in your shop manual, but 35V at a couple thousand RPM is probably about right. My book says 19-26 V / 1K RPM.
And now what you've all been waiting for... This time, the new meter (set to measure VOLTS) read only 1.3 MILLIVOLTS output at ALL RPMs... TOTAL FAIL!
So it is indeed the stator gone bad with NO OUTPUT AT ALL! I don't really understand why the stator shows the .2 internal ohms in the test but doesn't put out. It's kind of like my ex...
UPDATE FROM LATER FINDINGS: Once I set the multimeter to measure AC Volts, I discovered the stator WAS putting out after all... 20 V at idle and 36-38 V at 2000 RPM. So it was NOT the stator but the regulator!
Thanks everyone for your help!
Last edited by NorthGeorgiaHawg; Jun 15, 2010 at 06:09 PM. Reason: NGH IS A DUMBASS WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO USE A MULTIMETER!
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 8,198
Likes: 3,087
From: NW AR
That's strange. I've never seen one fail quite like that, that is, no voltage output but with reasonable continuity between the leads and no short to the case. Weird. Inspect the rotor closely as well, although I can't think of a situation where there wouldn't be some voltage output, even if weak. I have seen some strange things happen with circuits under power that didn't happen when there was no power. I remember a TV set that blew fuses when plugged in but had no shorts when not plugged in. It only shorted at 115V.