My riding season is OVER
#11
08-25-2010, 09:45 PM
75% of my money is on inner cam bearing failure, based on the score marks on the cam gear face in pic 2.
However maybe the lifter roller bearing collapsed and when the lifter block grenaded it sent a piece of the block onto the outside face of the cam gear and scored it?
Please let us know the findings when you can. As UncleG said, those early model roller lifters were not good. The changeover to the "B" model lifters was a big improvement (I think in about 1995 but not sure).
However maybe the lifter roller bearing collapsed and when the lifter block grenaded it sent a piece of the block onto the outside face of the cam gear and scored it?
Please let us know the findings when you can. As UncleG said, those early model roller lifters were not good. The changeover to the "B" model lifters was a big improvement (I think in about 1995 but not sure).
#12
08-25-2010, 09:47 PM
Doesn't the EVO oil circulation go through the engine first, then the filter?
#13
08-26-2010, 06:14 AM
The oil that is in the bottom of the gear case is picked up by the oil pump and sent to the filter before returning to the oil tank. Any large pieces that were in the bottom of the gear case may have already gone thru the oil pump gears. You may want to pull the pump and inspect it for damage.
#15
08-26-2010, 06:41 PM
It could have been a failure of the inner cam bearing or the collapse of the needles in the tappet roller, allowing the roller to wobble and catch on the lifter block. That's similar to what happened to my '94 at 48,000 miles. The problem will be where the needles (and pieces of needles) went, and what damage they caused on the way there.
Unfortunately, the tappet rollers and the INA inner cam bearing (used since '92) are the Achilles heel of the Evo engine. They simply will not run forever. The updated lifters (with a larger axle and no inner race) are better, but I still replace them every 40,000 miles. I also install a new Torrington inner cam bearing, just to be sure.
I also notice a lot of varnish in your gearcase for 52,000 miles. I had my gearcase open at 50,000 miles on the rebuilt motor, and mine was clean as a whistle. What kind of oil are you using, and how often are you changing it?
If it was my engine, I'd have a hard time trusting it again. I'd be afraid there would be to many hard pieces in places I couldn't reach which would migrate and cause trouble later on (like maybe damaging the oil pump). If it were me, I'd strongly consider a factory remanufactured engine.
Unfortunately, the tappet rollers and the INA inner cam bearing (used since '92) are the Achilles heel of the Evo engine. They simply will not run forever. The updated lifters (with a larger axle and no inner race) are better, but I still replace them every 40,000 miles. I also install a new Torrington inner cam bearing, just to be sure.
I also notice a lot of varnish in your gearcase for 52,000 miles. I had my gearcase open at 50,000 miles on the rebuilt motor, and mine was clean as a whistle. What kind of oil are you using, and how often are you changing it?
If it was my engine, I'd have a hard time trusting it again. I'd be afraid there would be to many hard pieces in places I couldn't reach which would migrate and cause trouble later on (like maybe damaging the oil pump). If it were me, I'd strongly consider a factory remanufactured engine.
BTW where in upstate NY are you? That is where this bike spent 35K of it's 50K miles. It was purchased new there in the Saratoga area. As far as the oil I have used since getting the bike in 2004, it's been mostly HD brand and Mobil 1 15W-50 with some Royal Purple one time.
I would love to get a factory reman, but that has to be installed by my local dealer, right? I am mechanically inclined so I could do most of the work on the rebuild IF I went that route. COST is a BIG factor, as I am on a pretty tight budget these days. So what am I looking at cost wise between the two?
#16
08-26-2010, 08:37 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
When this happened to mine, I caught it before the roller grabbed the lifter block. The dealer flushed the motor, replaced the lifters, cam and cam bearing. I then rode the bike another 35,000 miles, so, who knows? You might get lucky yet. Unfortunately, in my case, when I next opened the motor at 85,000 miles to replace the lifters again (before the next failure), I discovered that some chips had gone through the pinion shaft bearing, and ruined the pinion shaft bearing surface. The pinion shaft looked like a thread had been cut on it! That's when I went with the factory rebuild. Today, I have 160,000 miles on my '94.
Giving this some more thought, you might get lucky, and get some more time out of that motor. If you decide to got this route, make sure that the oil pump is cleaned out well and undamaged. Bits of metal in the gearcase can get into the scavenge side of the oil pump, jam the gears and shear the drive key on the oil pump.
This all depends on how much you like the bike you have, and how much you want to keep it versus selling it. In my case, this bike is my baby. I've owned it for 17 years, and couldn't imagine parting with it. It's simply worth more to me than I could ever sell it for.
I live in a little village of 1100 people along the banks of the "sunny Susquehanna" about an hour east of Binghamton. Saratoga is about 2 1/2 hours away to the Northeast. The nearest Dealership is 40 miles away, so, like you, I've had to learn to be my own mechanic for a lot of stuff (no indy shop nearby, either).
Giving this some more thought, you might get lucky, and get some more time out of that motor. If you decide to got this route, make sure that the oil pump is cleaned out well and undamaged. Bits of metal in the gearcase can get into the scavenge side of the oil pump, jam the gears and shear the drive key on the oil pump.
This all depends on how much you like the bike you have, and how much you want to keep it versus selling it. In my case, this bike is my baby. I've owned it for 17 years, and couldn't imagine parting with it. It's simply worth more to me than I could ever sell it for.
I live in a little village of 1100 people along the banks of the "sunny Susquehanna" about an hour east of Binghamton. Saratoga is about 2 1/2 hours away to the Northeast. The nearest Dealership is 40 miles away, so, like you, I've had to learn to be my own mechanic for a lot of stuff (no indy shop nearby, either).
Last edited by Uncle G.; 08-26-2010 at 08:40 PM.
#17
08-26-2010, 11:30 PM
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When her engine goes (hopefully not for a very long time!), I'll either rebuild, get a MoCo new Evo, or maybe get an S&S 111 Touring engine. But she's going strong, so I hope that day is a long way off...
To the OP - sorry to hear about your ripped-up engine. That sucks. Hopefully you can get it fixed for not a lot of dough. Good luck.
#18
08-27-2010, 12:03 AM
When this happened to mine, I caught it before the roller grabbed the lifter block. The dealer flushed the motor, replaced the lifters, cam and cam bearing. I then rode the bike another 35,000 miles, so, who knows? You might get lucky yet. Unfortunately, in my case, when I next opened the motor at 85,000 miles to replace the lifters again (before the next failure), I discovered that some chips had gone through the pinion shaft bearing, and ruined the pinion shaft bearing surface. The pinion shaft looked like a thread had been cut on it! That's when I went with the factory rebuild. Today, I have 160,000 miles on my '94.
Giving this some more thought, you might get lucky, and get some more time out of that motor. If you decide to got this route, make sure that the oil pump is cleaned out well and undamaged. Bits of metal in the gearcase can get into the scavenge side of the oil pump, jam the gears and shear the drive key on the oil pump.
This all depends on how much you like the bike you have, and how much you want to keep it versus selling it. In my case, this bike is my baby. I've owned it for 17 years, and couldn't imagine parting with it. It's simply worth more to me than I could ever sell it for.
I live in a little village of 1100 people along the banks of the "sunny Susquehanna" about an hour east of Binghamton. Saratoga is about 2 1/2 hours away to the Northeast. The nearest Dealership is 40 miles away, so, like you, I've had to learn to be my own mechanic for a lot of stuff (no indy shop nearby, either).
Giving this some more thought, you might get lucky, and get some more time out of that motor. If you decide to got this route, make sure that the oil pump is cleaned out well and undamaged. Bits of metal in the gearcase can get into the scavenge side of the oil pump, jam the gears and shear the drive key on the oil pump.
This all depends on how much you like the bike you have, and how much you want to keep it versus selling it. In my case, this bike is my baby. I've owned it for 17 years, and couldn't imagine parting with it. It's simply worth more to me than I could ever sell it for.
I live in a little village of 1100 people along the banks of the "sunny Susquehanna" about an hour east of Binghamton. Saratoga is about 2 1/2 hours away to the Northeast. The nearest Dealership is 40 miles away, so, like you, I've had to learn to be my own mechanic for a lot of stuff (no indy shop nearby, either).
Here is a shot of the bike in 92 when new. And a shot of it in 2004 when I cleaned it up after I pulled it out of the shed at my dad's house. YEAH it's a keeper...............
No matter if it takes me 2 years and I miss next year's riding season. It WILL be on the road again.
#19
08-27-2010, 12:23 AM
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Well this is pretty much the ONLY THING I have to remember myolder brothe by so this too is a PRICELES item. He passed away in 2004 and was the original and ONLY owner of the bike. I do want it to last for a LONG time!! SoI am lan towards a TOTAL REBUILD. It sounds like the ONLY way to be sure there is nothing else hidden inside the case. Thanks for all your help and suggestions. I'm working for the next 7 days straight 12 hour days, so any further work on her will have to wait for now.
Here is a shot of the bike in 92 when new. And a shot of it in 2004 when I cleaned it up after I pulled it out of the shed at my dad's house. YEAH it's a keeper............... No matter if it takes me 2 years and I miss next year's riding season. It WILL be on the road again.
Here is a shot of the bike in 92 when new. And a shot of it in 2004 when I cleaned it up after I pulled it out of the shed at my dad's house. YEAH it's a keeper...............
No matter if it takes me 2 years and I miss next year's riding season. It WILL be on the road again.