Back on the road, then this . . .
 

Greetings!
Long time since I posted. I've posted this in General, assuming that since this pretty generic it should fit? If not, then please move it to the appropriate forum. I have a 2015 Ultra Ltd with a stage one that I installed myself. With life getting in the way, I put my motorcycle up for about a year. Just recently I checked the tires, fluids and etc and rode to the dealership. Had them replace the brake and clutch fluid w/flush and give the bike good checkout etc. Since the bike didn't run for a year, I thought that replacing fluids all 3 holes would be wise - even though I use high quality synthetics. Oil and Transmission went fine - now (which I almost didn't do) on to the Primary/chain case. I was able to drain the chain case and then unscrewed the first 4 of 5 screws on the clutch inspection cover and on the fifth disaster struck. The T25 skipped and somehow that head is screwed up where I cannot loosen it but I can tighten it. I'm using craftsman tools, which have served me well in the past. I'm not sure how I could of screwed this up, but I did. Or maybe the dealership did? Not sure. The one that screwed up is in approximately the 7 o'clock position. I've puzzled over this for more than an hour and have come up with some ways around this problem, none of them good. I have a manual, but I'm trying to keep the solution simple. I need advice on the best way to handle this:

1. Remove the chain case cover and attempt to remove the t25 from the access plate from the back end. I've never removed this one before, not sure if I need gaskets . . . can I reuse the gasket at least temporarily? Does the nut extend into the chain case in such a fashion that can back it out easily?
2. Use a Ryobi nut/screw removal tool. I've never used one of these before. These are the ones where you drill a small hole into the ruined nut, and then insert this tool which will grip the walls of the drilled bold and then allows you to back it out. Any tips on using these tools? Is there any danger to the chain case cover using this tool?
3. Give up, call a wrecker and have the bike towed in and repaired. Boo. I don't want to do this but I will if I must.

Oh, and in this condition with no chain case fluid I can I start the bike and power it ~25 feet into the garage without damage?

Any other choices that I'm not mentioning here?

Thanks In Advance . . . any advice would be greatly appreciated!

Mark Sanderson

Im assuming your talking about the derby cover. Derby cover screws into the outer primary, sounds like its stripped. The right thing to do in my mind is to buy a new outer and derby cover.

All is not lost. First, unless something has changed, those are T27 torx not T25. You may get lucky and have enough meat to tap a T27 in there and get it out. Second, for 25 feet, it wont hurt without fluid. Its splash lubed, so takes minimal fluid anyways. There is enough residual to go that far. Other option is to drill off the head, and attack the rest with vice grips. Once pressure is removed from the body, they normally cooperate. You should change gaskets when disrupting them. Cheap insurance against leaks. Hope this helps

Yup definitely t27 on those bolts, very common mistake and of course the t27 is not included in alot of torx sets. Almost makes ya think harley had something to do with that lol. Pretty easy to drill off the head and then replace them all with Allen head bolts.

Wow! T27? Sheesh . . . Ok, now I'm off to find a T27 and see if I can salvage that cover first . . . where the heck can I find a T27? Hmm . . .

My Torx sets all have a 27. You might buy two, to use one as a "sacrificial" one, meaning, if it still doesn't want to bite, take a small hammer and tap it into the end of the bolt. Then try to turn it out. If it works, great! Even if you can't get it back out, it was the "spare."

The cheap assed harbor freight sets have a T27 in them

I have one of those cheap sets from HB. It’s the big set also comes with the security torx bits with the hole in them. Best ten bucks I’ve ever spent
Op: since you only have one bolt left holding the cover you might be able to spin it( the cover) and break the other bolt loose like that. Or you might take a small sharp chisel and hit the head of the bolt counter clock & break it loose that way(carefully). I get lucky sometimes doing this. Good luck
https://www.harborfreight.com/100-pc...ase-62657.html

Save lots of potential future aggravation by slapping yourself every time you think of buying something with 'Ryobi' on it and put what you do have in the bin. Ryobi really is cheap and nasty cr*p. As others have said, if the T27 bit lightly tapped into the screw doesn't work, drill the head off and remove the screw shank with vice grips.

Might I add that a hand impact is a good tool to have (using the correct size bit of course) to remove stubborn bolts such as these without stripping. As well, some folks swap out the torx for Allen heads.

The head on a tiny screw is stripped because the wrong size bit was used and you’re suggesting that a new outer primary and derby cover are needed? WTH.

Everybody else covered the screw removal so yes, you should be fine starting the bike o mpve it a short distance with no lube in the case.

That's what I'd try first- A correct sized bit and a hand impact tool. If that fails, just drill the head off the screw, remove the cover and use a vice grips to remove the part still left.

I am amazed that using the wrong sized bit you were able to remove as many of those screws as you did.

Lots of good advice here. I used to race dirt bikes back in the 70's early 80's.... a hand impact driver was always a tool in the box and used. The phillips screws used on those bikes were always difficult to remove and an impact driver was a must. Have use it a few times on these Harleys!!! Just another inexpensive must have tool.
T-25 and T-27....what a waste.... wish they would have made one or the other.... but whenever I have to remove these I always, always fit both to make sure. Hand controls and derby covers are two things that come to mind as T-27. Just remember to try both and make sure you use the right one. I always try to find brand name, top of the line torx and hex bits....the HF and cheap ones seem to twist and break too often.

To the OP- Been there done that. I used a chisel and hammer to notch the bolt and then used a hammer to tap in a counterclockwise direction.

Spartanden- I believe the front torx bolt on the hand controls are T-27 but the top and bottom are T-25. They were on my FXDB and I believe the same on my 19 SG though I have only removed once so I am not 100% sure.

Those torx screws are a very soft metal anyway,easily screwed up..might be a good idea to change them out to stainless after you get that one out.

Whatever you do be careful that you don't break off the bit when drilling out the screw. Then you'd really have a problem.

This is the right answer.

Had some Derby Cover screw heads that were buggered up on a 1997 Sportster. Drilled them out, took the derby cover off and the grabbed what was left of the screw with vice grips, they came out easily.

Before starting, read your service manual. I got rid of all Torx fastners and went with allen head. Also removed one item from tool bag...making the bike lighter. :)

the one time that i had this happen, i drilled the head off the bolt. with the derby cover removed, i was able to unscrew that bolt with my fingers.

when you go to put them on, two things to remember. first, use some anti-seize on there. they are dissimilar metals and will galvanize. and second, don't torque them down too tight. it isn't high pressure oil behind it, so snug is all that is necessary. if you do use a torque wrench, the spec is in the neighborhood of 84 in/lbs (INCH POUNDS)<<<<<<<<<< bolded for emphasis.

i know a lot of folks remove them and replace with hex key screws, but if you don't go all crazy with them, the torx screws are fine. in 17 years and 9 harleys, only had the one problem, and that was on my first sportster. and i probably used a t25 on that one myself....

Drill the head off and use vice grips like was mentioned above. I had that happen to me once and was able to use one of those small dremel cutoff wheels to notch the head enough so I could back the bolt out with a flat head screwdriver. Using a hammer to tap a small chisel would do the same thing but I'd be hesitant to hit it too hard in fear of damaging the actual primary cover.

...exactly what I did when I did this exact same thing on my wife's old 883L. Mistakenly used the T-25 instead of 27. Was able to "tap" in the 27 to the chewed up screw and got it out. Changed 'em all over to a stainless allen head bolt.

Too bad studs and hex nuts with washers are not used.

I have used a left hand drill bit to with the drill in reverse. This some times puts enough torque on the screw to loosen it up.

i had a similar situation but not on a bike. AND the head of the phillips head broke off into the screw. No way to dril this supposed “hardened steel”. I used a dremel to cut into the screw head to make a slot for a screwdriver. Took some time but worked

Victory!!
After kicking myself for buying a Ryobi screw removal tool ( as suggested elsewhere ;) ) but not before it breaking off, I attacked said screw with a couple of small dremel cut off wheels and finally removed enough pressure on the screw that it then easily backed out. I'm puzzled why this screw, out of the other 4 managed to wedge itself in nicely. I inspected the chain case cover and there was no damage; no filings dropped into the reservoir. No nuts appeared stripped. No stress fractures or any other apparent damage. So, my misadventure cost me about $80.00 for a stock derby cover and 5 nice new stainless screws. The original cover is damaged, but looks like it would contain fluid properly. I could hide the damaged hole under the passenger foot rest, but decided to use the new one and will keep the original as a reminder . . . for what I'm not sure! And for those who were curious, yes I have both a manual and two torque wrenches which I use religiously. I changed my own fluid last time, and used the torque wrench to tighten all the nuts to the specs given in the manual. Looking at the screws, I can only guess that perhaps it oxidation or electrolysis of some sort caused the nut to be stuck. Thank the almighty for dremel tools and cut off wheels . . . civilization would fall without them.
Thanks to everyone who posted . . . the help was greatly appreciated.

Mark!

This will take care of your problem. Ace hardware sell chrome head allen bolts that will solve your current problem forever. All the gaskets can be reused if handled properly during disassembly. Hope this helps.

T27
 

I don't know about Harbor Freight but Northern Tool has a socket,and a set of sockets, with T27 bits installed. Might be a good investment for you.

Turns out I did have a T27 in one of those swappable screwdriver things sold by H-D . . . T25 there as well. I just missed that one . . . didn't even think to try and use a T27. I have nice sets of Hex and T from Craftsman and HF . . . just no T27's in those sets!! I did solve the problem, but I now know that T27 == Derby!

Thanks Again!

Mark

I haven't seen this mentioned yet so here's a little tidbit of advice for you. Next time you need to change the primary lube, remove the derby cover before you drain the fluid. That way if you have a stripped T27 you can still ride the bike until you get the stripped bolt out.

yep, like i mentioned above, use a dab of anti-seize when you install the new bolts. unless you magilla gorilla the bolts putting them on, you shouldn't ever have another problem with them.

Where did you guys purchase the stainless Allen head screws for the derby cover? Aftermarket or HD? Sorry to highjack but I read the OP got it squared away so figured I’d ask. Thanks!

Thanks, I looked at what I'd done and within a minute I figured out that my order of operations was wrong . . . Thanks!

$15.00 at the H-D dealership . . . seems a bit much.

mark

Thanks - will do.

Mark

If I remember right, they’re 1/4-20 x 1/2”.... they’re not anything real special. Take one with you to you’re favorite hardware store/auto parts store, Fastenal or whatever that has chrome or SS. Verify size and head diameter.
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...SABEgLRbfD_BwE
or
https://www.albanycountyfasteners.co...p/1111-134.htm
for instance. The chrome is pricey

Ace Hardware stores carry just about any fastener you would ever want and for a fraction of what HD will charge you.

Funny how we figure these things out after disaster strikes.

I prefer Allen heads too, but this from Wikipedia is interesting:

The Torx design allows for a higher torque to be exerted than a similarly sized conventional hex socket head without damaging the head and/or the tool.[

Welcome back Mark.

As long as you have the correct size bit I will take a torx head over an allen head any time. Have never had a problem with them.