MOCO has strangled the workers and vendors too with concessions. When and how much will the prices drop?

 

Price is based on what the customer is willing to pay. Could be they "strangled" workers and suppliers to keep from losing more money. There seem to be fewer incentives to buy now that we are in the prime of the season. Probably will be some more nearer the middle/end of the summer. This is a change from the past when there was rarely such a thing as a left over Harley Davidson.

There seems to be a knee jerk consensus that HOG lowering it's costs should automatically translate into lower retail prices. Clearly there is more to the situation. I think HD is doing the right thing by not prostituting their brand. Once the brand equity is lost, there's no way back. Ask the foreign MFG's that discount heavily how well that has been working out for them.

 

The automobile manufacturers I do business with have relentlesly and ruthlessly cut costs at the expense of their workers, vendors and ultimately customers. This has been their way of doing business for quite some time. In with all of those cost cuts, when has the price of a new automobile declined? Can you name a single product sold anywhere for less than what a customer will pay? Whether or not you agree with the MOCO and the way they are operating today, what they are doing must be working. They are still in business and seem to be doing as well as anyone else.

 

I am looking, casually, for a used touring bike. I watch eBay. By my rough estimation, I'd say the typical 'completed' sale is for bikes that sold for $2K to $3k less than other equivalent bikes are being 'reserved' for (on eBay). There are 15 to 20 unsold bikes at the end of the auctions versus those that sold. How does this play into the price for new Harleys? I always thought there was a direct relationship between the cost of a new item, and the cost of a similar used one--with the used item's price trending along with the price for the new article. But this relationship is not what I see for touring Harleys (at least, those used ones being sold via eBay). New ones have continued to go up in price, year after year, while similar models of these bikes, used, took a notable reduction in value along about 2009 sometime. Is this just a case of a buyer (like me) seeing the market one way, and a seller seeing it in another. If so, there's a lot of unsold iron online. This leaves me wondering, is eBay indicative of the market in general? Maybe someone with more smarts in this area can offer some insights. I have no clear thought as to 'why' this is the situation. I only know what I see... Alan

 

Most listers on ebay won't or can't sell a Harley for what the auctions close for. A lot of listers may owe more than what the current used market value is. I suspect that the average Harley owner has deeper pockets than the average Joe and therefore doesn't usually have to sell anyway. For all of the talk about what a particular model/year is worth, actually finding one for sale at that price can be difficult.

 

Especially when these guys who really can't afford a new bike yet opt to finance it for 5, 6 and even 7 years...wtf

At a dealer down here some of the 2010's came in less expensive (read cheaper)than the 09's still on the floor.

 

Well, prices on some bikes HAVE dropped. 2010 FLSTC is $1K cheaper than 2009. I think there's one other bike who's price has dropped.

Where's the law that cost reductions in the business are required to result in price drops? Maybe other costs have risen. Maybe they want to use that savings on more R&D, or investing in overseas channels. Or just improve their bottom line because it isnt looking great.

Please people.....

 

Corporations are like trees--they grow or they die. HD (and the others) sell more bikes for less (smaller profit margin on each unit), or less bikes for more, whatever will increase their earnings. Or have I oversimplified that? If they are making less on sales, they have to cut back elsewhere to show their stockholders a good profit. That's what drives all of this--the stockholders' earnings. Everything else feeds, and is subservient to that. When you own stock, you want it to grow. It might take a backward step once in a while. But overall we want to see steady earnings. The bigger, the better. If lowered prices result in that increase, all's the better. But if not, the management's got to dig its feet in. Same thing happening on eBay. Lots of unsold bikes. Far more than are sold. Maybe that's the trend in the bigger world, too (e.g., classified ads, craigslist, etc.), a lot more fishing than catching.

 

Amen bro. We should all be thanking Wandrell, he's done a brilliant job and he is the reason that Harley-Davidson exists as an independent company vs. bought and torn apart by a hedge fund. Why? Because the stock price is high, so its nearly impossible to make an economic case for buying it and selling off the parts.

 

This was posted before on a similar thread, but everyone should read this interview. What, exactly would you take issue with? The guy had the stones to do the painful but necessary things to re-align the business back to reality.

http://www.jsonline.com/business/92025399.html