motorcycle safety course for everyone
 

i think everbody should have to take the msf course before getting a license. and keep it up to date. its colorado springs 45 and sunny out. so yeah im riding. and some jackass pulls out in front of me while trying to do a u-turn. luckily it was at a slow speed and since i held it as long as i could there wasnt much damage to me or the bike. still pisses me off though. does anyone else think that all drivers should have to take the course, or have any other ideas to help keep us riders safe.

umm.........no

Probably would have a negative affect on motorcycles, if everyone had to take a MSF course.... reasoning is that it would probably scare too many people, and then we would get lobbying in DC to outlaw motorcycles because they are too dangerous...lol.

I do however believe that there should be more motorcycle awareness built into each states licensing instruction booklets... or whatever you want to call them.

I took the MSF course with my wife last summer so she could get her license. It really is an excellent class, and it helps act as a reference when we're out riding and I coach her by saying, "Remember when they talked about....".

Unfortunately, there's nothing you can do about inattentive, inconsiderate, blind-a$$ drivers who just don't care. Although, I do hear carrying lead balls in your left hand pocket can act as a deterrent. :icon_hunter:

Luckily it's mandated in military - did mine back in '88 & still practice maneuvers in lg parking lot every spring before heading out on 1st long run.

i've taken it too. just wish there something for non riders to take or be mandatory to take so they are better aware of riders. this is the 2cd time someone pulled out in front of me. both times it was in the colder months. i shouldnt have to stop riding just because its technically winter. here there are always days to ride.

Did my first course in '77 at the AFB I was stationed at... Still have the certificate... and that course was much harder and more intense than courses now... IIRC.

No I agree. I was hit by an SUV on the freeway about three months ago. Lady got impatient in the fast lane because it was going 30mph while the middle lane was doing 50+ so she whipped out at the first available opening she could to get into the middle lane...

...problem was it wasn't an opening. Totaled my bike, tore up my foot, knee, and shoulder, and there's 9 hours of my life I can't remember to save my life. All so she could get in a faster moving lane.

Best part was she told the police that she signaled, safely changed lanes, and once she had completed changing lanes that I HIT HER! Neverminde the damage to her vehicle was to the right FRONT fender and FRONT BUMPER.

But even before that I felt that non-riders should have some kind of "motorcycle awareness" training that helps them to be a bit more observant and to really keep an eye out for us hard to see riders. It will never happen, but I sure think there should be something.

I make my kids do exactly this and have them ride along with me a bit on the Dyna, it does make them better drivers. I dont think its hould be a law but I do think its a good $200 investment.

quote=bikridr69;7705974]i think everbody should have to take the msf course before getting a license. and keep it up to date. its colorado springs 45 and sunny out. so yeah im riding. and some jackass pulls out in front of me while trying to do a u-turn. luckily it was at a slow speed and since i held it as long as i could there wasnt much damage to me or the bike. still pisses me off though. does anyone else think that all drivers should have to take the course, or have any other ideas to help keep us riders safe.[/quote]

you can't fix stupid... so requiring everyone else to take a class is not the answer...

NOT what we need. We do NOT need any more government mandated anything.

All of the classes in the world is not going to prevent people from pulling out in front of motorcycles. Motorcycles do not register as a threat to some drivers. It is not the fact that they do not see you, or are careless.
Back when most teenagers took drivers education in high school, we still had accidents.
Having said all of that, I lived in the Springs at one time, i think it is the thin air that makes most drivers there, drive like idiots.

ride defensively-slow down at intersections-have hand and foot on brake-prepare for the worst that might happen...don't ever assume they see you-add lights to bike-get a loud horn. it seems that a lot of us get hit at intersections from people turning in front of you. since we know that intersections are so dangerous, it is up to us to be ready.

In the winter, more people will turn left in front of you than in summer - why? Simple, car drivers do not expect to see motorcycles on the road once the temperature drops below 45 degrees or so. So for those that ride all year round in the cold states, if a car driver sees a vehicle coming at them that doesn't register in their mind as a car or truck, they turn left because their thought process automatically excludes motorcycles if the weather is cold. What do they know about Gerbing heated equipment... I didn't make this up - got it from MSF.

So, in cold weather, allow extra time and distance and be especially aware at all intersections.

Car drivers should have to at least watch the gruesome videos of the devastation they can do to riders BEFORE they get or renew their DL......

something to make them more aware

A big step to help us would be to outlaw the damn cell phones. I'll bet most of the folks who hit bike sthese days are yakkig their heads off, especially the teen girls. You almost never see them driving without a phone stuck to their ear.

Mandatory MSF type courses is a super bad idea in my opinion. Not how you fix the problem. Riding a motorcycle is a dangerous thing to do, we all accept that. You can't make it fool proof. Some things that would help is restricting cell phones and stressing defensive driving...just like we do here on the forum every day.

OH MY! Boo Hoo! stop crying and welcome to life. If i wined and posted some thread about the general public having to take the basic MSF class every time I got cut off I'd be posting here non stop.

+1... my small home town alone is full of people who got their bike endorsement with a MSF certificate and can't ride for shit.

And it's like the old timer told me back in the 60's when I first got on a bike, you have to assume everyone on the road is out to kill you, and watch your ass at all times.

It's always been that way, it's never going to change, and the last thing we need is more mandatory government regulations.

If you can show you have the skills and there's no need for the class, then you shouldn't need to take the class. That's what I did.

Oh, great idea...if you happen to own MSF.

Yea I was out there today and had a near miss or two too. Same thing happened to me this year only I went down with the bike and it took a few months before I got it back. Remeber, everyone, EVERYONE in this town will pull right the hell out in front of you! Do what you can to stay safe.

Seems like a lot of people want to legislate law directed at someone else. Some of that fix them BS.

Its a law in Texas,to get your license you must take the MSF.......

I agree that we have far too much government intrusion into our lives as it is, but driver training is one place more and stricter training should be required. I think everybody should have to take a comprehensive driving class before getting any license to drive. The training required now is ludicrus, a few hours that most people pay very little attention too, and a test that morons pass easily.
One of the highest percentages of death for teens is car accidents, usually caused by easily avoidable wrecks, or just plain stupidity. Unfortuately, it's not just the stupid driver that dies, they often take innocent pasengers or others with them, including the biker they didn't see..
Most bike accidents are caused by car drivers doing something stupid.
At least with a biker is doing something stupid, they usually only take themselves out.

After nearly 50 years of riding, I can honestly say I have never had an accident on a bike that was someone else' fault. Usually my own stupidity is what got me into trouble, inattentiveness or riding to hard for the conditions.
I have read enough accident stories on here to know most are caused by the same thing, so let's just worry about our own abilities instead of trying to force someone else to conform to us.
As stated earlier we do not need anymore legislation.

I think we ought to mandate IQ test before Idiots are allowed to have sex and reproduce.

Make it two of us. I don't ask for any more legislation, thank you.

IMHO - everyone is missing the point. I think motorcycle awareness should be included in all driver's ed programs, and I think banning cell phone use while driving would be a good idea, but I doubt these things will make a huge difference. I believe part (if not most) of the problem is that NOBODY is held accountable for their irresponisble behavior/actions. Even insurance companies like Allstate seem to be encouraging people to drive like idiots because Allstate will protect them from "Mayhem". If there was SERIOUS consequences for irresponsible behavior (like loss of license for 5 years), then maybe a few of the nimrods on the road would pay attention to their driving instead of reading the paper, painting their nails, talking on the phone.... while they are driving. Don't get me wrong - I am not trying to imply the drunk driving is a good thing, but we make such a huge deal out of that, yet ignore other forms of impared driving. I see no difference between a drunk on the road and a totally distracted driver who is eating a cheesburger, yelling at the kids in the back seat, and putting on makeup all while driving the car. DRIVING IS # 1 priority. You have something else that needs to be done right now - then pull the F over and do it while the car is stopped.

Pretty much sums it up right there , and as another poster stated making everyone take the course would backfire the haters would come out of the woodwork fast .

I'd like to see anyone who gets their license suspended for excessive moving violations have to do a year on two wheels before they get their (auto) DL back. Nothing helps you bone up on your attentive driving skills like the threat of being -killed- at any moment.

How do you know that this person has not taken and completed a safety course?
So was it a legal u-turn attempt? I doubt it. Seems the situation was already covered by Mr. Government, and what would probably be multiple violations of the Traffic Code. All of that didn't appear to stop him.
When I took the MSF course (which IS a very good course) almost all of the inexperienced riders failed to complete the u-turn portion of the course, yet they all got enough points overall to pass the course.

Haven't read all the posts, so forgive me if I'm redundant...I assume most of the responses are pretty much the same as they always are when someone posts about a crash/crazy cager/near miss/MSF, etc....No matter how often I hear these stories, I cringe and feel very badly for all involved.

As a recently certified MSF Instructor...it'd be good for my income if this was a requirement, but as we all know, that'll never happen. I DO wish each state would require re-testing cagers every 5 years or so. Really, my 77 year old mom and 88 year old uncle still drive (in Houston of all places!). Can you imagine how many years it's been since they've taken a driving test? All that's needed in TX is to pass an eye exam. Mom is pretty decent actually, but does recognize her reflex/reaction/depth perception decline and has stopped driving at night and is considering a driver during the day. But I digress....what I'm getting at is people should pass a driving test every few years as laws change, vision changes, health conditions deteriorate, etc. Some sort of continuing education wouldn't hurt and I seriously wish drivers education and continuing education dealt with how to deal with other vehicles...such as motorcycles, semis and trucks pulling trailers. So many drivers have no clue about those vehicles reaction and braking times and what it's like when some azzhat in a car cuts them off. It might be motivating to many individuals if each state would provide financial/driving record incentives for advanced education. So many other types of licensing requires continuing education...why not driving?

Then, there's the whole distracted driver / driving under the influence issue. DD's are one of the biggest issues and all of us are guilty of it. You can all act high and mighty and call out other's talking on their phones or what have you, but I would guess the percentage of forum members who are "blameless" is close to zero. Quite simply...phones, kids, eating in the car, being in a "bad place" (i.e. anger, depression, etc.), day-dreaming, looking in the glove box, operating the radio, shaving, applying makeup, looking at a map, sleep deprivation, alcohol, drugs, getting "off" etc...all occupy the mind with things other than driving. ALL of that stuff takes part of your brain away from the task at hand - which is driving. As we all know...it takes a couple seconds of eyes off the road for something bad to happen.

One of the biggest culprits, IMO, for cagers "not seeing" is that years of driving have trained our brains to recognize other vehicles as having 2 lights 8 or so feet apart. Thus, our brains have "learned" how to figure out distance and speed pretty darn well when another vehicle (car) is approaching/moving away. Motorcycles on the other hand...have 1 light (even those of us w/ aux lights fall in this category). What happens is, the brain often dis-regards a lone light as non-threat - particularly in an environment with a lot of traffic. Even if it does register as a 'vehicle'... the brain isn't very good at judging speed and distance (we are all the exceptions though :icon_surprised:)...this is why cars turn in front of us. NOW, add in a distraction or 2 or 5 and the brain simply disregards us altogether. Drivers at intersections - looking to turn left...are focused on oncoming traffic (that would be cars) - hoping to find a gap so they can get to wherever it is they're going. WE often see motorcycles because we love them and notice them. Kind like noticing whatever kind of car you driveor or thinking of buying whenever you see one on the road.

About all we can do is continue to train ourselves to be more defensive and better riders. Add lights and such to try and grab a cagers attention and slow down and cover our controls so we can be ready to react if necessary. I HATE busy intersections because even with all the lights, training, prayer and precautions I've undertaken, I understand that one day I may get nailed.

Personally, I enjoy riding so much, I am willing to take the risk, but am doing everything in my power to minimize it as I have no control over anyone other than myself.

Of course, all this is just my :icon_twocents: as I'm no authority. I do read a lot and have had conversations with people much smarter than me on the subject. At the end of the day...it sucks that cagers do stupid things and sucks even more when someone gets hurt or killed.

I have to agree MSF should be a must.

Reason why I agree...1) They teach you things you dont have to learn the hard way
2) I have noticed most less than 3 years riding riders drive the bike much better if they took the MSF course.
3) Seems like MSF course takers wreck less
4) Its not big deal just take the course it teaches new riders and its not hard
5) Keeps you up on what skills you need to practice
6) Not everyone has an old biker to help them with the in and outs of motorcycle riding
7) The odd things they teach you honestly I have never thought about and has helped me many times.

Been riding for 26 years and have never taking it,seen some of the clowns that they graduate up here in NH.what a joke,One lady put her bike in the trees and they passed her,one guy dumped the bike and the state passed him with a broken arm.It should start with common sense,first time on a bike they should not be buying a bike that goes 200 mph,or is to big for them.

Hey!! I've never shaved while driving!:icon_mrgreen:
(I'm pretty sure I've never applied makeup, either)

TSTL (to stupid to live) If they can pull out in front of my big light blue 4X4, why think they can see the bike. If everyone would pull on their ears till they hear the pop every morning, the roads would be safer.

Yes I have always firmly believed that some kind motorcycle safety/awareness module should be built into every "driver's" ed course and that you have to PASS it. I cannot understand why there is not.

MSF is not required to drive a cage. That was the OP's gripe. He has an opinion that stupid drivers in cages might see motorcycles if they took the MSF course. I think that stupid is a birth defect and can't be fixed through class rooms. Requiring someone to be somewhat proficient in whatever their mode of transportation doesn't bother me. Testing their proficiency reasonably doesn't bother me. Requiring driving schools does bother me. It is not always efficient use of someone's time if they have the required skill set to drive to force them to take a redundant course. I have tested out of a lot of things in my life and I have had to sit in some bull shit boring classes that taught me very little.