Gearing Down or Not?
#41
09-17-2011, 03:13 PM
I just put my feet down on the pavement and slow the bike with the friction from my feet touching the pavement.
This way the bike will last longer and stay out of the shop.
When I take off I move my feet real fast against the pavement to get off to a fast start so the engine will not have to work as hard.
This will help keep the bike out of the shop.
I am always looking for ways to prevent wear and tear on my Harley Davidson so it wont breakdown.
This weekend I plan on not riding it so I can keep it out of the shop.
This way the bike will last longer and stay out of the shop.
When I take off I move my feet real fast against the pavement to get off to a fast start so the engine will not have to work as hard.
This will help keep the bike out of the shop.
I am always looking for ways to prevent wear and tear on my Harley Davidson so it wont breakdown.
This weekend I plan on not riding it so I can keep it out of the shop.
#42
09-17-2011, 03:56 PM
I respectfully disagree, as I suspect any who use rev-matching would.
As Reddogg said, it helps you to maintain vehicle stability not only in coming to a stop but in the many situations which arise on the road. For example downshifting at speed before entering an on ramp. Rev matching makes the transition to a lower speed much smoother and by extension makes you a smoother, safer and better rider.
Try it once and ask your passenger if they noticed a difference.
Better yet, don't rev-match the next time you are driving a manual transmission car and watch your passengers heads jerk forwards and back as you just 'let out the clutch' (and understand you are doing the same thing to your vehicles suspension).
I find there are generally reasons why professional drivers universally employ certain techniques...
As Reddogg said, it helps you to maintain vehicle stability not only in coming to a stop but in the many situations which arise on the road. For example downshifting at speed before entering an on ramp. Rev matching makes the transition to a lower speed much smoother and by extension makes you a smoother, safer and better rider.
Try it once and ask your passenger if they noticed a difference.
Better yet, don't rev-match the next time you are driving a manual transmission car and watch your passengers heads jerk forwards and back as you just 'let out the clutch' (and understand you are doing the same thing to your vehicles suspension).
I find there are generally reasons why professional drivers universally employ certain techniques...
Decel braking makes up for lack of rubber surface of the tire on motorcycles. Motorcycle brakes compared to cages are totally inadequate so we compensate in other ways. When you are decel braking you are in fact unloading the suspension vs loading when accelerating. You do not want to unload the suspension in a sharp turn unless you want your bike to slide out underneath you.. The blipping the throttle on deceleration again does no more then make noise when you do it at a stop light. What are the qualifications of a professional driver? I've been driving/riding for nearly 35 years and still don't have that stamp on my drivers license!
#43
09-17-2011, 03:56 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
I always engine brake anything with a manual trans...it puts you in more control and allows you to stop quicker in an emergency situation. "Rev matching" is not needed at all in a normal stop, but can make a panic stop much smoother.
#44
09-17-2011, 08:02 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
The girl in my sig most definitely does. She'd be disappointed if we were out and I *didn't* do that at least a few times. ... that along with accelerating hard, maybe racing out of a few lights with another bike or a nice car, riding too fast... the bigger the risk, the more she likes it.
#45
09-17-2011, 08:28 PM
Road Master
I've had my first Harley since june and being 30+ years since I've been on a bike ... a 1979 Kawi 400LTD (great little bike to learn on) when I was 16.
From watching others come to a stop at intersections, some you can hear them kinda snap the motor to bring up the revs and use those revs to shift down...that requires a lotta pratice to master and I'm not sure of the outcome if you don't quite master it soon enough.
Others just quietly come to the intersections using mostly the brakes...I shift down as far as 3rd and then brake and wait to feel the bike begin to labour a bit then push in the clutch and brake to the stop and finish the last 2 gears after I've stopped.
I'm kinda torn of whether I'm wearing out the clutch and brakes sooner or doing more damage not quite timing those rev snaps properly and feeling the front end of the bike go down and hear her groan out those gears slowing down too hard.
Just pickin y'alls brain to find out how its suppose to be done....I wanna do what I can to keep her out of the shop as much as possible.
From watching others come to a stop at intersections, some you can hear them kinda snap the motor to bring up the revs and use those revs to shift down...that requires a lotta pratice to master and I'm not sure of the outcome if you don't quite master it soon enough.
Others just quietly come to the intersections using mostly the brakes...I shift down as far as 3rd and then brake and wait to feel the bike begin to labour a bit then push in the clutch and brake to the stop and finish the last 2 gears after I've stopped.
I'm kinda torn of whether I'm wearing out the clutch and brakes sooner or doing more damage not quite timing those rev snaps properly and feeling the front end of the bike go down and hear her groan out those gears slowing down too hard.
Just pickin y'alls brain to find out how its suppose to be done....I wanna do what I can to keep her out of the shop as much as possible.
#46
09-17-2011, 08:48 PM
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No what you are trying to do is match your main shaft speed and road speed & RPM's to all be matched when you release your clutch which makes it easier on the drive train it works the same as if you were driving a tractor trailer you will notice it will shift smoother when done correctly. It is wrong just to let the clutch out! if you do you may as well make an appointment at the shop every week to replace tires, clutches,transmissions and what not!
Last edited by TWIN CAM 96; 09-17-2011 at 08:53 PM.
#47
09-17-2011, 09:05 PM
No what you are trying to do is match your main shaft speed and road speed & RPM's to all be matched when you release your clutch which makes it easier on the drive train it works the same as if you were driving a tractor trailer you will notice it will shift smoother when done correctly. It is wrong just to let the clutch out! if you do you may as well make an appointment at the shop every week to replace tires, clutches,transmissions and what not!
Plus if you are 'just letting the clutch out,' you are entering a lower gear at a higher rpm and if the road is slick with loose gravel, engine oil etc, you risk the rear tire breaking loose.
Bottom line is, there are so many reasons to rev match and so many reasons not to 'just let out the clutch' after downshifting.
Last edited by Red9; 09-17-2011 at 10:12 PM.
#48
09-17-2011, 09:19 PM
When you are decel braking you are in fact unloading the suspension vs loading when accelerating. You do not want to unload the suspension in a sharp turn unless you want your bike to slide out underneath you.. The blipping the throttle on deceleration again does no more then make noise when you do it at a stop light. What are the qualifications of a professional driver? I've been driving/riding for nearly 35 years and still don't have that stamp on my drivers license!
No where in any of my posts did I advocate down shifting using rev-matching in a sharp turn. I did speak of down shifting before entering a turn...
Inadvertently though you did point out the main reason for rev-matching when you said 'you are in fact unloading the suspension vs loading when accelerating'. Absolutely correct! And... rev matching allows you to match your main shaft speed with road speed & RPM's to minimize or eliminate this unloading of your suspension. As opposed to 'just letting out the clutch' which does the exact opposite.
As for the qualifications of a professional driver? I would say a universally accepted definition would be anyone who earns their living driving a motorized vehicle on a closed race course.
Unfortunately driving/riding for 35 years without being open to learning how to drive or ride correctly and more safely only means your likely to continue for another 35.
#49
09-17-2011, 09:21 PM
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If I recall correctly when you pull the clutch RPM's drop to around idle. The gears in the transmission start moving slower in response to the rear tire spinning more slowly (bike starts to slow down due to the friction of the rear tire rotating against the asphalt).
To simply dump the clutch at this point, the motor would try to slow the rotation of the rear wheel because of the slower engine RPM. This places the bike at greater risk of locking up the rear wheel.
By blipping the throttle your RPM's temporarily go up. With practice when you engage the clutch at a RPM more consistent with the bikes actual speed, you reduce the difference in rotation and reduce the risk of locking up the rear wheel.
To simply dump the clutch at this point, the motor would try to slow the rotation of the rear wheel because of the slower engine RPM. This places the bike at greater risk of locking up the rear wheel.
By blipping the throttle your RPM's temporarily go up. With practice when you engage the clutch at a RPM more consistent with the bikes actual speed, you reduce the difference in rotation and reduce the risk of locking up the rear wheel.
#50
09-17-2011, 09:31 PM
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JMHO...I was always instructed to down shift when coming to a stop (and always be in first gear when you stop) in order to be ready to react to any situation which may arise. When using gearing down as an engine break, I do not blip the throttle as it defeats the purpose. Also, there is no need to since the gears are synchronized and you are using the clutch. You just need to watch the speed so as not to over rev the engine.