what's this do to the 02 sensors ? i would think that would ruin them with all that junk blowing by.

 

02 sensors typically have a chamber to collect exhaust gas (talking very small here) to compare 02 readings in the exhaust to atmosphere. If the carbon is burnt out combined with the fact you are adding to the fuel mixture, it may skew 02 readings for the length of the cleansing process. For cars/trucks that the induction service was performed on via BG or other methods the 02s weren't hurt. If they were, it usually was because of a major issue from oil or coolant contamination (leaky head gasket, cracked cylinder head, porous cylinder wall, leaking valve seals) before hand.

 

Gozzie, thanks for taking the time to post all that you have. Nice work!

I'm really interested in seeing what the water does...I think with long term use it will do a great job. Ever see automotive cylinders that have been leaking coolant from the head gasket over a period of time? They are clean as a whistle.

I know the cleaners like seafoam, CRC, etc will work a little, but, I think the key is long term use. Have you considered using Techron? I am reading that it is one of the best cleaners to use.

Now, to come up with a way to slowly inject small amounts of water into the intake like a good old fashioned water injection system. That would be something to see.

EDIT: Interesting info, and have not read it all the way thru yet. Just thinking about the long term slow gentle cleaning of the water injection aspect. Not for any performance gains, however that is one of the advantages. Perhaps a system that is easily installed and removed so it can be used periodically for cleaning: https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...injection.html

Thanks again, YD

 

Hi Yankee Dog,

I actually am going to use the Techron after the injection cleaning process, but run it through the gas tank. I haven't read any articles ( I'm sure there are some) of anyone using Techron through the intake manifold. I have read a lot about how it really does clean though.

I think the water will really clean up the combustion chambers, but I have doubts about the intake and the back side of the valves. Hopefully the Techron will help with that. I am also hoping that the CRC and Seafoam may help for that too through the manifold port.

I planned on injecting the Seafoam today but I woke up to a pretty heavy rain storm. maybe it will clear up by tonight. I guess there's always tomorrow.

I read your link on the water injection and found it interesting. I can see the future heading that way again as the engineers are getting smarter every year. I'm surprised the epa doesn't jump on it for advantages of cleaner burning engines.

Another very interesting subject on carbon removal is HHO gas. Go to You Tube and search HHO carbon removal. I guess when the gas burns it turns into water doing the same type of carbon removal. It appears to work but the jury is still out. The theory seems right though.

 

Here are some other forum posts on the subject of carbon removal and breather hose relocations. It appears both are a pretty wide spread problem with lots of Harley owners having concerns with their rides.

Carbon Removal
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...-teardown.html

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...revention.html

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/engin...-build-up.html

Breather Hose Relocating

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/dyna-...ather-kit.html

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/oil-a...f-my-bike.html

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/new-r...g-blow-by.html

There are many others and most are really worth reading. It's not just the Harleys, check out the car forums and see how many catch cans are being installed. When I'm done with my bike I will jump right into fixing the Subaru before it gets all gummed and carboned up. I never realized how many folks around the world are having these problems.

Usually it seems to be just me. This time I am not alone

 

Part 4 Seafoam Injection

6/05/2016
Product Seafoam

Today I injected 2 half cans of Seafoam through the intake manifold. I injected the first 1/2 and let sit for 20 minutes. The Seafoam seemed to smoke quite a bit more than the CRC intake cleaner and the bike wanted to stall more. After the 20 minute wait the bike was a little harder to start and it ran pretty rough for a minute or 2. It smoked pretty heavily for 3 or 4 minutes and then started to clear up. We took it for a nice long ride up in the hills this time instead of just the highway. I went easy on it for the first 20 miles and then opened it up. This time I could see from the mirrors that I was leaving a bit of a smoke trail when I got on it hard. I actually hit the rev limiter a couple of times. After some hard riding I took it easy again on the way back and just enjoyed the beautiful day. Now it could be placebo but the bike felt stonger and smoother on this run.

When I pulled into my driveway the bike died from a low idle. The idle is programmed at 1000 rpm but now it wants to idle at 800 rpm but wont stay running that low. So something is definitely starting happen. I'm not sure what, but I will take it as a positive. Maybe you mechanics can explain the new low idle. I'm not going to change the tune yet until I'm done with the water injection and then I'll start fresh. Meantime I'll just grip the throttle to keep the idle up.

With the motor still hot I injected the 2nd half can of Seafoam and shut it down for an overnight soak. I'll take it out for a good run tomorrow and see if there are any other changes. Next weekend I will do the water injection. Stay tuned

My You Tube video link

 

24 Hour Seafoam Soak

6/6/2016
Product Seafoam

Symptoms
Today was interesting. After letting the Seafoam soak for 24 Hours, I flooded it pretty heavily yesterday. I was a little surprised that the bike started right up. It wouldn't idle on it's own without my assistance. It smoked through the tailpipe very heavily ( I should have filmed it). It wasn't running very smooth at all through the warmup and it continued to smoke heavily for a good 8-10 minutes. I reved it up a few times and it started to clear out and run better.

We jumped on and it took it for a good hard ride. Like before, I waited for about 20 miles to really romp on it. Even after 20 miles once I hit the gas it let out a pretty good cloud of smoke. I red lined it a couple of times and then went into just cruising.

This is when I really noticed a difference. I found that I had to twist the throttle quite a bit more than before to keep my cruising speed up. I have a palm rest on the throttle grip that wasn't even touching my palm anymore because the throttle was twisted that much further. Also there was a very noticeable surging going on and the bike doesn't seem as happy. I romped on it again and it actually started pinging a little bit so I backed off. Maybe the mechanics here can tell me more, but my guess is that the bike is starting to breathe better and is getting more air than gas and is starting to lean out. I am running in open loop so the ECM wont adjust for the changes. At this point from what I think I know, I am positive that I am removing the junk and carbon. How much I don't know, but it's enough to start taking notice.

When I do the water injection next I will pull the plugs and try to get any sort of glimpse of the piston tops and at least check the plugs condition. I am looking forward to the water injection to see if things change even more.

 

I got to thinking tonight (shouldn't do that) that I should copy the tune that's in the bike now and save it. For the next couple of days I should run autotune and compare the differences in VE's before and after The CRC and Seafoam injections. Then do another run of autotunes after the water injection and compare that too.

It would give a real indication about what these cleaners are doing to help the bike perform differently. I'll post each tune compared to the one before it and just post the deltas. Should be easy enough to do and would add some scientific proof to what may be my placebo effect one way or the other instead of just my opinions.

I won't waste time trying to get all the hits, maybe just a couple of runs in the cruising and Idle areas of the map where I am noticing the most changes should be enough

 

I'm not a big fan of seafoam. Just from past readings on various posts over the years my conclusion is that it is nothing special. I have done allot of reading on the "Bob is the oil guy" forums and that is mostly where I based my conclusion about seafoam and why I like techron. But nothing jumping out at me as far as data, just 4 or 5 years of reading (curiosity) mainly on that forum but some other forums as well regarding additives.

My conclusion: (and it is somewhat old school), is that water (steam cleaning) will work just as good (if not better) than most of the others fuel additives/cleaners.

I am not knocking your efforts, far from it. I applaud you and the amount of time you have spent on this project and for posting your results. I find it very interesting.

I do a water mist "treatment" in the carb (mine in a 1994) once or twice a season just prior to an oil change. I make sure the bike is up to operating temperature first. Then I use a tank of fuel that has techron added to it about every 5 or 6 fill ups. Sometimes more, but not less.

I have owned this bike for 3 years now and it had a pretty good build up of carbon on the pistons (looking thru both spark plug holes) when I first got it. The first thing I did was disconnect the head breather tube from the air cleaner and routed it down to the under side of the bike out to atmosphere. The oil mist junk no longer goes into the carb/intake. Then I did a few water mist and techron treatments. Now I just do like I described earlier each year. I can visually tell that the carbon build up has reduced probably 50%, but that is just an educated guess based on what I can see thru the spark plug hole.

Did I get it cleaned up from the water? The techron? The rerouting of the oil mist to atmosphere? Or a combination of all of those? I also remember the bike was not tuned properly and the carb was tuned way rich. So who knows if the tuning made the biggest improvement. I do know that I had some pinging on warm days when I first got the bike that I no longer have. But again, that could be gone because of the tuning improvements I have made.

Again, great information, thanks for posting it. I will continue to follow this thread. YD

 

Mine is a 2008 with 11500 miles. Wonder if I should do the carbon removal on it. I am defently going to be doing the vent mod. I have vance and hines lip on's with a big sucker and I do seam to smell burning oil when I am on the throttle hard and totaly let off. I have the vance and hines tuner on mine.