Gdetting back into tuners
 

I got 2007. When I bought I bought a SERT, a map from a dealer, and did some tweaking for stage I. Now looking to do minor build, low compression, cams, and port. I am considering dynojet power vision 4. Price is part of it and looks simple.

I am not sure I will get it on dyno, and not like to squeeze after hp out of it. Just freshing up the engine, and would like to see if I can cool it down a bit by removing EPA restrictions.

I have not kept up with this technology, From my reading it looks like it flashes the ECM, and is not a piggy back device?
If you did want live data, then you would plug in, and go for ride. But you do not need to leave plugged in? Is there any advantage to leaving it if not trouble shooting?
Can it be tuned, or is just load maps in?

I created an account hoping to see what maps they have, but the app doesn't seem to do anything if, not connected. I was hoping to review it.

Thanks for the help.

I highly suggest you let someone that knows what they're doing handle this and buy the tuner he suggests. You're likely to lose power not gain it. Do you even know what a data file is, how to interpret it, or apply changes based on it?.

If you dont plan to put it on the dyno, and just wanna cool it down a bit without squeezing the horsey’s out of it i would at least suggest buying from somewhere like fuel moto that has map support. If you are not familiar with the things that gunner60 mentions then their support will be pivotal in your success with the device.

I am not familiar with the PV4 but im sure its data logging and troubleshooting capabilities are similar to the 1-2b models so its unlikely it will need to be connected unless you are actively using it to tune or log. You are correct it is not a piggy back tuner.

I am open to correction on all points.

I would consider a Thundermax. It features autotune and easy to load maps. 3 year warranty. Pricey but worth it.

The Powervision is a good option. It is a flash tuner meaning that it will re-write the tables in the ECM. After flashing you can remove the head unit if you like. I keep mine attached and monitor certain data parameters. There are plenty of instructional videos. Over the years I have had just too many issues with the Thundermax product. I assume it it a typo that you want to lower compression. I actually had the original SE Super Tuner Pro on mine and used my map as the starting point for playing with the PV.

Not a typo. He thinks compression is bad and so is anything bigger than a 95".
I stand by post. This is a train wreck waiting to happen.

This will be my third build. Yes, I like compression around stock. My last two builds I did raise it with .030 head gaskets. I'll probably do that again.

My plan was whatever tuner I got to get a canned map. I was debating on auto tuning, and not sure if I was going to dyno it.

One of my carb builds I dynoed, one I did not.

My first goal is to freshen up a higher mileage bike. lifters, pads, and rings. I am not looking to spend a ton of money. This is a 17 year old bike, and I got two more, so I am not looking to max out the power and dump a lot of money into it. But since it is open I am looking at tuner, cams, and heads. I do have a SERT, and considered just getting a older computer to run it, I might even have one.

My question was do these program ECM or piggy back. When I was into this only Harley programed everything else piggybacked. At that time thundermax was way expensive, I didn't even look at their products this time. To me it looks like these newer ones flash.

I did speak to fuel moto, they said PV-1b had less issues and call backs, then PV-4, and better on my year. It is an upsell. I am not sure if I care about auto tuning. But I'll probably get it.

Problem with Fuel Moto is they want to sell kits. Myself, I'd just bore my cylinders and save a few bucks. I was hoping to buy the rest from them. But talking to them I think it will be piecemeal.

I am not sure what I am going to do for lifters. Not sure they are worth $300. Last build I did S&S. Harley ones are cheap and have lasted.

They recommended TW222, which they said was good for 96-107. I'll probably go with that. I was thinking about andrews 21 or 26, which they sell.



So whats the differenfe going to fuel moto for a tuner and just buying it from dynajet? They also have maps. I downloaded app. I wanted to look to see what they had avalable, but it needs to connect. Maybe I can find out on their site?

I'll probabloy go with fuel moto, couple bucks cheaper.

Harley had a real good instructions for their old SERT. Maybe worth reading just for the info in it. But I am just looking to go with canned map from the tuner company. Not sure if I am going any farther.

Buying a second tuner is expensive, but I'll probably do it. I can buy another licesnse for my other bike, so that is a plus. But at the moment I am pretty happy with that. By the time I do a build on that, they will say it doesn't work with current phone/computer too.

If you want to read some extensive documentation about tuning, you can download the Mastertune software updater & run it
to install all of the PDF files (need acrobat reader)

http://www.mastertune.net/downloads_...re_updater.php

hth,

T.

I am not looking to do the tuning myself, as said I am just looking for canned map, and maybe that is it.

I played around in past,but not really interested at the moment.

Last time I checked fuel moto had the lowest prices I could find for PV products. I don't know the difference in map quality between the two or how far dynojet is willing to take their map support but I've had pretty good luck with fuel moto. I believe they will take your log files and use them to modify your maps. Not sure how much good that can do if the bike doesn't have widebands.

It seems a PV with wide-bands and a thundermax that comes with wide bands is comparable in price. Thundrmax has been harder for me to read and interpret the calibrations than the powervision tables were. Fuel moto can preprogram either before they ship it to you, another thing dtnojet may not offer.

Why buy something new? Just spend the same $$ and have someone tune it with the SERT.

I wondered about sert I bought years ago, just load a canned map that came with it. I suppose challenge of using a Dyno is someone running a computer that talks to it .

As far as widebands,07 was first year of o2 sensors, except for maybe certain states. Not sure difference in sensors

If you are looking to keep it simple and as cost effective as possible you could build one of the combinations in the SERT or SEPST and load a canned map. A 251 or 259 is great in a touring bike. THat's easy and from reading your posts you are just looking for a decent refresh with a bump in power.

I've thought about looking at sert maps for 2-1 pipe and similar cam.

There's no such thing as autotuning. Something you might want to consider here. If you think you can just plug a tuner in and presto, it tunes your bike, you are sadly mistaken.

I think it comes down to what you really want, and are you willing to leave some on the table. The bike left the factory with a canned map. I ran a canned map 70k miles. I was going to get it tuned when I built the engine, but just never got around to it.

Carbs are not much different than a canned map, even if you dyno, due to limited changed you can make.


But I also admit I know nothing about auto tuning, or whatever you wish to call it. I tend to think it will be good enough for me, but again I know nothing of it. I am not sure if I am going to spend the money to get it dynoed at fuel moto. I pass through the area at times, but they would have to be willing to do it at the end of the day, per my schedule. And I amnot sure I want to spend a few hundred more, on this simple build. Again my goal is just to freshen up an old engine.

I am not saying for sure I wouldn't. In for a penny for a pound.

with that said, the opposite, I don't know if I want to spend the money for the tuner that can be used for dyno and auto tuning.

You seem confused again or you forgot what your first post was.

Your original post said you bought a SERT and map from the dealer, your last post stated you ran the OEM canned map for 70K.

Which is it or are you lying again just to make it all about you and your fictitious motorcycle(s).

You need to clarify what you are talking about or are you just spewing your gibberish again without thinking.

You are welcome for the help.

All motorcycles leave the factory with a canned map. This comment was pertaining to the need for further tuning. Most people are running a canned map from the factory

I loaded a map in the bike in 2007 when I did stage I, that I bought from Lotus harley on line. They would maybe still do sell maps


You aint no sherlock, and none of this adds anything to the thread. Unless you know something about tuners, and would like to share it, why are you in this thread?????????? You are only posting here because you are one of my groupies.

Please forgive me for making it all about me, in the thread I started, to ask a question I was looking fort help with. Ha. You are a hoot.

I suppose next, you will bring up how much I am posting in my own thread, answering your questions.

If you are near us we should be able to help out. If you bring your bike we can issue a Power Vision tune license, flash the tune, send you out for a nice ride with PV to log data, and we can review and make any necessary corrections on the spot. The tune license runs $219 and we would not charge to review the data and make sure you are within tune.

So I would not need to buy the tuner? You would flash my ecm. I might be interested in that. I am not trying to squeeze everything out of a 17 year old bike.



I get to fix valley is a bit in my travel.

I think that would be your best bet, economical and you don't have to learn any new system

Correct, you would not need to purchase a tuning device, we would sell you a Power Vision Tune License. This allows us (or anyone with a Dynojet Power Vision, PV3, or PV4 device) to flash your ECM. We would just take it a bit further by flashing one of our tunes, logging & reviewing the data to ensure your bike is running properly.

I might do that. My last build added up. And I am sure this one will have more too, on wear and tear items.

I plan on replacing bearings, coil, cpk. Already done a little a lot of other stuff.

Or even put money into my new bike.

Rounders...if you're really going to go to fuelmoto let them do a full dyno tune on your bike. Getting there is the biggest hurdle because they'll very likely work with you on getting you in and out. You're going through the effort of getting there so why not go for it? Going there and getting a flash would be like going the best steakhouse in the country and ordering a freaking cheeseburger...don't get a cheeseburger. This is just my opinion of course.
just wanted to contradict myself real quick lol...but if no dyno option is available then a flash or canned tune from them is a great second option. I've used them a few times and they definitely have their tunes really close and lots of people are happy with that...only you can make that call.

I realize it would be a better product. Let's see how the rest adds up. And simply what other costs in the project and my life. I want to buy a sako


​​​​​​See what I see when I check run out , plus whatever else I see. Last build had lots of little stuff worn, like rocker arms, shifter linkages. Probably should do engine mount and stabilizers too.

I have got good information.

Wow, the auto correct on this one. I get to Fox Valley, a bit in my travels.

If you ever make any changes you would have to buy another tune license. Now you're up to $500 and still don't have a tuner to make any changes on your own. And this method is not a full tune. Neither is 2 hours on a dyno tuning the VE tables.
It's up to you what you're willing to settle for. 80%? 90%? You don't know. All you know for sure is it won't be 100%.

Quite frankly, with your low compression 95 build or whatever it is you're doing, you can't afford to lose 10%. You might end up with less power.
Yep, bikes come with canned maps. Its why even stock bikes benefit from a good tune.

I am not disagreeing with you. And I am weighing it. I get to fox valley enough I could get it remapped. But I really doubt I will make any changes for many years.

I am not a cam swapperm. I do hate my pipe, but have had it since 2007. Since full system is expensive. I could see that maybe changing.

But most likely it will end it's life or maybe get stroked if crank has issues.


99.9% of gas engines have generic tube whether carb or fi.

I am not saying it can't be better. Getting rid of EPA tune has value too.

Once again, more bad info from the internet “expert”. You do not have to buy a license each time you tune the bike.
I would venture to say that you will be quite happy with the results from FM.

WTF are you talking about????
I never said you had to buy a license each time. One way or other I'll be doing business with fuel moto.

I think what gunner may have meant is you would have to pay FM in future if you make changes. I don't know if that is true. I did get the impression they would work with me on this build, and tweak it if I had issues. If I go back in 5 years cause I made changes I don't know.

I kinda doubt will open it up again for another 50-70k miles. I got another bike I build up before that.

I have not decided if I am boring. If I don't, again doubt I'll open up again just for that. Unless I had another issue

And I may buy tuner to play with or use on my other bike. Depend how the bills add up on build and my personal life.

I wasn’t referring to you. You did not make the statement.

I just assume I have starring role as bad guy in this movie

When you purchase a Dynojet Tune License for your vehicle that license can be used with ANY Dynojet Power Vision tuning device (PV, PV3, or PV4) by ANY user. It is not device or user specific and the license can remain on multiple devices at the same time. The bike can be tuned as many times as necessary with any Power Vision device.

Fuel Moto also has deals on their PVs right now. I just bought the PV-2B from them for $65 off ($535). $25 off orders $299 or more, and $40 off the PV-2B (PV3 is $30 off, PV4 is $20 off).

If I buy a license, and later want a tuner, would I be correct in saying I would be better off to buy the tuner for my new bike, and then use it with existing tune license on this bike?

You need a license for each bike.

There is an embedded license on a tuner. That license cannot be transferred to another tuner. However, the PV4 has changed this as it does not have an embedded license as previous models have; you are free to move that initial license as you would a standalone license.

A standalone license can be moved any number of times between different tuners. There are three instances I can think of where you would buy a standalone license: 1) you buy a used tuner, 2) you pay to use someone else’s tuner (e.g., getting a dyno tune), or 3) you buy an additional license for another bike.

I meant tuner comes with 1 license. So if later on I decided to buy a tuner, I may want to buy it for different bike, giving me two licenses.

I have 2 bikes with Delphi