I NEED HELP!

I'm stuck between my builder and my tuner. I put on a big-bore kit with heads, broke it in, then took it to a Dynojet tuning center, which made it produce the HP and TQ numbers that I was looking for.

My problem is twofold: HP and TQ are at a higher RPM range than they should be, and, I'm getting too much pinging in 5th gear. Yes, I do run high octane (even using booster right now) and I'm keeping the motor spun up higher than I used to.

The builder recommends that a Stage 1 or Stage 2 flash be done to the stock ECM before tuning, as the PCIII "runs out of adjustment" on the timing side and will not compensate enough for higher performance engines. The builder also says that if it's tuned correctly, the HP and TQ numbers will come down into a more reasonable range.

On the other hand, the tuner says the flash is not needed. I did mention the recommendation a couple of times, even when he was scratching his head wondering why the problem persisted.

What I need is an explanation of what is meant by the PCIII running out of adjustment, so I can get the flash done and take my bike back to the tuner, where I do not want to pay another $300

Any help is appreciated.
Thanks, Keith

 

I know someone can enlighten me on this.

 

Want me to guess? I'm guessing that your build is out of the range of the PCIII in some instances. Even with a stage II reflash you still might not be there depending on how exotic your build is. Considering the cost of dyno time, and not promoting a product here, but you might consider the SERT and a competent SERT tuner.
GPM

 

Your build is hardley exotic enough to be out of the tuning range of the Power Commander.

Also, If your fueling is correct or even close, you can't move where your bike makes the power. That is up to mostly the cam you have installed.

Look at the PC map you have and look at the timing table. Are there negative numbers??

Is you pinging at part or full throttle??
Can you post you dyno sheet with the a/f ratio printout??

SERT won't help if you can't have it tuned.

 

He is saying that the PC modifies the timing out of the ecm, there is a limit to how much it can modify that signal from the ecm and that with radical builds it needs to be modified by more than that limit. Whether that is true or not, i.e. whether the pc modifies the timing out of the ecm, I don't know.

 

You can take up to 10 degrees out of the timing table with the Power Commander. I don't think he will be anywhere close to that limit with the build he has.

He has to tell us what his dyno sheet and PC map is before he can get anymore help.

 

10.5:1; 575 cam; HQ Heads;
I think HQ would tell you to use SERT or TTS to tune this bike properly.

 

What do I gain by using an SERT or TTS tuner over the PC? Not fighting for my PCIII, just trying to understand the differences, and to quit throwing money at it. HQ did tell me to get the ECM flash and retune, or get an SERT and use their Pro-tuner.

With the SERT I'll still have to get another dynotune, correct? Am I not on equal, if not less expensive ground, if I get the ECM flash, keep my PCIII, and convince the tuner guy that I did, in fact, need it to make the scooter run right, thereby, not handing over more cash for another tune when I mentioned that the flash was suggested?

I tend to agree with the statement that the HP and TQ range are determined by the cams, but I was just repeating what the expert told me. I also can't post my dyno sheet, as the guy, as I found out too late, isn't very computer literate. Next time I get near his shop I'm taking a thumb drive and try to find my map and dyno run.

 

Hook you laptop up to the Power Commander(or bring it inside) and pull the map off of it. You can then look at the timing table to see how much he pulled out if any.

You will be fine tuning it with the PC, but with like anything, use whatever you can get tuned the best.

 

Airfuel, I don't think the guy tuned the ignition any more negative than 5 or 6. I do need to pull it and look at the final one. I'm confused because a reputable dyno tuner is telling me that he doesn't know why he can't get rid of my pinging. He went more negative a few times, then said that was about all he could do.

Again, I'm no expert, that's why I'm here.