I don't either. I think the only point I am trying to make is that a bike can be fully tuned without the need of additional wide band sensors. I am just hoping that the Vision gets to that point. For now I am happy fine tuning the calibration (map) you have provided, but it sure would be nice to get to the point of where I don't have to pester you guys every time I make a major change to the motor. Knowing myself, that is semi-frequent.

 

One quick question:
I'm getting ready to datalog and I found I do not have a listed variable to monitor:
"Set AFR". Is this labeled different on an 07 bike? Perhaps "Desired AFR"?

EDIT: It is, when it's loaded to datalog the label changes to: "Set AFR"

 

Is the log tuner basic only able to populate the VE table cells that correspond to the AFR table cells set to 14.6 AFR in the MAP? If this is the case, then I do not see how I can populate 2/3 of my VE values with my current MAP. The custom map that you provided for my bike has less than 2/3 of the AFR values set to 14.6 (most are lower than 14.6 so the bike is in open-loop). The MAP DJ provides for my setup is exclusively open-loop so I don't know if it will even work with the log tuner. Is there a special starting MAP to use for tuning where the appropriate 2/3 of the MAP is closed-loop?

I must be missing the section in the users manual where it explains that the software "blends" the data in the VE tables that cannot be populated via the NB sensors. If the software really does do this then I take back my original statement and apologize for bad-mouthing the new log tuner basic/WinPV. I did not understand that it worked this way. I also do not think the log tuner will help tune my spark tables, because I do not think Sportsters have knock sensors/adaptive knock control, but again I apologize if I am wrong.

I really do like the Power Vision unit, I'm just not impressed with the log tune basic capabilities and I do not understand why all of the documentation is so poor (I think this is the reason for most of the confusion/negative comments).

Jamie, You and Fuel Moto are doing a great job explaining things and are really going above and beyond for us PV users. I have absolutely nothing negative to say about you.

 

Sounds like log tune will work with acc enrichment active or de-active, you just lose a little of the data leaving it active. I do like the idea of keeping it simple, one less thing to modify (then having to to remember to modify back!)

As for the product, I hope no one took anything I've said as the product not being a step forward. I am completely happy with the PV, wouldn't trade it for any other product on the market. And I have to throw in a plug for Jamie and fuelmoto.. I could never ask for better service and support than what you guys provide. Thanks!

 

I have a couple questions/observations now that I have had a chance to play a little with the Log Tuner. In the options dialog the Min Hit Count came default at 50, but I noticed in one of the examples in the user guide had this field set to 10. When I create a tune with Min Hit Count set to 50 it affects fewer fields in the VE tables than with a setting of 10. So what is Min Hit Count, and what factors influence its setting?

Similar questions for Min/Max Engine Temp. The default max is 288 but the user guide shows a max of 220 and a min of 185 which is a pretty narrow band of temperatures (and far less than my usual running temp).

And finally, I compared tuning runs with Stoich Value set to 14.6 vs. 14.16. The resulting pvv output showed VE changes from my base map for the 14.6 Stoich AFR, but no VE changes whatsoever when I tuned to 14.16 Stoich AFR. Seems like this option setting might be just a little bit broken.

As I develop hardware in a (remotely) similar industry I fully appreciate the pressure to get a new product to market, but I would caution the folks at DJ that the perception of their product by the end user is heavily influenced by its usability and the quality of its documentation. Let's hope that they continue down the path of delivering a first in class tuning solution to match Jamie's superb support.

 

I have run four tuning sessions tonight. Man is this thing conservative pulling timing out. I have pinging on the rear cylinder. I wasn't certain the tuning was working but a comparrison going through my four tunes shows the timing adjustments are narrowing down with each run. At this rate I'll have fifteen runs before it is tuned...LOL.

 

My understanding of this (per that other vendor) is once VE is calibrated the AFR calculations for the cells not in closed loop become pretty accurate. You might try reading the other vendors documentation to fill in the gaps.

 

Here is a quick instruction sheet with some tuning tips that I typed up. I hope this helps


PV Tuner Basic Instructions

1. Check for Firmware update. connect your Power Vision unit to your computer, open the update client and make sure you have the latest firmware. PV Log tuner requires version 1.0.3-723 or later firmware

2. Create a Value File. Open your calibration in the WinPV software and create a Power Vision value file under File/Save Selected Values that has the following tables: VE front, VE rear, AFR or Lambda fuel table, and Front and Rear Spark tables

3. Mount the Power Vision on your bike. go to Datalog/Assign Signals and configure your Power Vision to datalog the following channels:

MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure)
TP (Throttle Position)
Engine Temp
Engine Speed (RPM)
Accel Enrichment
Desired/Set AFR (if you have an AFR based fuel table) OR
Desired/Set Lambda (if you have a Lambda based fuel table)
Warmup AFR (for AFR calibrations) OR
Warmup Lambda (for Lambda calibrations)
Spark Knock Front
Spark Knock Rear

4. Datalog with the Power Vision. Start the bike go to Datalog/Gauges and press “start log”. Ride the bike as normal, trying to vary the load and RPM as much as possible. It may be helpful to use the PV to display helpful channels for visual reference such as MAP, Engine temp, Throttle position, and Knock retard, make sure to press “end log” before you shut the motor off

5. Retrieve Logs that were created from the Power Vision. Connect the unit to the USB, open the WinPV software, go to “Get Log” and retrieve your log(s) and save them to your computer

6. Configure PV Log Tuner Software. Open PV Log Tuner software and go to “Options” and set the following parameters:
Stoich Value 14.6
Minimum Hit Count 50
Minimum Engine Temp 185
Maximum Engine Temp 288
Check the box “HD O2 sensors for correction”

7. Import Value File. go to “Open PVV” and load the value file that was created in Step 1

8. Import Logs. go to “Open Logs” and load the log files that were created in Step 4. You can load a single or multiple logs

9. Calculate Tune. click “Calc Tune” which will calculate corrected VE values and Spark Tables for the conditions and events that were datalogged. You can click on the tree view to see each calculated table

10. Apply Tune. click “Apply Tune” which will apply the new calculated VE/Spark values to the original Power Vision value file that was loaded in Step 7

11. Save PVV. click “Apply PVV” which will create a new Value File with your corrected tables, you will name this file and save it to your computer

12. Import Value File. Using WinPV open your original calibration and import the value file created from Step 11. Make sure your use the same calibration that was used while datalogging in step 4. To import the Value File open your Power Vision calibration, go to File/Load All Values and select the PVV that you created and saved in step 11.

13. Reflash ECM. now that you have an updated calibration, save this calibration with WinPv, send it to your Tune manager and flash your ECM

Tips/Advanced options

Keep log sessions to 15-30 minute session, this keeps the logs a reasonable size and is generally ideal for collecting and sorting data

You must have a closed loop calibration to use Log Tuner Basic. To enable closed loop Lambda values must be between .977 and 1.02 or AFR must be 14.6.

Log Tuner Basic will populate approx 2/3 of the normal operating range of the VE tables using the standard Lambda/AFR table in most Fuel Moto closed loop calibrations, and in most cases higher RPM/Load areas should be well within reasonable tune for a given combination. However more advanced users may choose to increase the area that PV Log Tuner Basic will populate by enlarging the closed loop area of the AFR/Lambda table. This is done by temporarily extending the Lambda/AFR values up to as high as 4000 RPM or more and 80Kpa. I recommend first doing some PV Log Tuner corrections with our standard AFR/Lambda table and then if necessary extending the tables which will allow you to gather additional data. Note if you choose extend the closed loop area it is also critical to monitor engine temp and spark knock events as you are setting up the calibration with a temporarily leaner than normal mixture in the higher load areas in order to gather data. As a general guideline I would also recommend removing approx 4 degrees of spark timing as well. Also note if you choose to extend the closed loop range that when you are done logging and create your tune that you must return your AFR/Lambda table to the original desired settings to ensure a proper mixture.

 

Thanks Jamie.

 

So has the auto tune basic been released also?