On a separate note, all fluids in the bike were spot on their full mark. In other words, the Transmission was exactly where it was suppose to be as well as the Primary. And the engine oil was less than a 1/4 Qt low. I had the fluids changed per the manual and after 7800miles not a drop of fluid has moved from the transmission or primary. Also worth noting the coolant was only a hair low.

Of major importance to me on this 3rd engine (Aug 2017 build), the oil jets screws were right on their torque spec and looked good. Crank rods (2500 miles on this 3rd engine) rotated freely and looked good according to the tech. Hopefully this engine is on a good path for upgrading to Stage IV..

 

 

Whew! or

 

 

Sad to report. This 3rd engine upgraded to Stage IV last week, sumped pretty badly last night after a 75 miles run. Looks like the cylinders/pistons/rings perfectly matched and specced by HD Engineering was not the solution, even with the latest oil pump ....*****180 casting. I've been a naysayer for awhile that the sumping issue is a design issue (vs a manufacturing issue), but I'm now convinced there is a serious design issue with the oiling system for the M8. I'm also convinced now that I can take any M8 and make it sump. Just plain sad. No idea where to go from here with this bike. The Dealer is coming to pick it up but won't be able to get the dealer rep onsite until early next week. Looks like another lost summer of riding this bike ahead of me. Time to put more miles on my other bike which is a joy to ride and far more dependable.

 

Infuriating! Some questions:

1) you mentioned that you could not get the stock 107 (is that what this build started with that you tested for a couple weeks?) to sump. But now that its Stage IV, it sumped again. So is the design problem in the Stage IV kit, or do you think this level of HP on a 117 Stage IV makes it most likely?
2) You can make any M8 sump - how, exactly?

 

speechless

 

Inquiring minds want to know how you can do it.

 

 

Here's how I come to the conclusion that I can make any M8 sump. Its a set of riding situations and temps that has taken awhile to figure out. I never did it it on the stock 114 form and wished I had. I have a 25 mile loop I enjoy riding. Its a combination of nice twisties with steep inclines, sweeping turns around a reservoir, then 10 miles on an interstate and than more twisty back roads back to my house. Last night I road that loop 2 times ...easy.....and the bike felt terrific. No signs of power loss or overheating. I regularly checked the radiator fans to see if they were running and the engine was cool, no issues and I was smiling as the ride felt great. At the last minute I figured I would do a third loop.

5 miles into the 3rd loop, the engine felt just "a hair off" the performance of the 1st 50 miles but I figured it was my imagination and my sensitivity to the the previous sumped engines. So I kept riding, nothing radical, just enjoying the curves. On the Interstate, I was doing 80-85mph with the traffic flow before the exit to the final 15 miles of backroads. The throttle response slowly got worse and worse. At every stop sign the fans were blowing where they weren't on the first 50 miles. Within 5-10 miles of my house the throttle response went to nothing. I could roll the throttle and it would barely accelerate. Engine was screaming hot.

I pulled it into my garage on level ground and let it idle for 2 mins. I shut it down and pulled the dipstick. Very bad burnt oil smell which you could smell throughout the garage. Where it had been perfectly full when I left, it was now 5-6 rows of dots low on oil, which is more than a quart low in less than 250miles. Even crazier, I let it sit overnight to cool down. Pulled the dipstick this morning and the oil was in the same place I left it last night but you could still smell the burnt oil on the dipstick. I turned the engine on and let it idle for 2 mins per SB1450 on the kickstand. I turned the engine off. The oil FELL from 5-6 rows of dots low on the dipstick to BELOW the add mark. Serious problem if your oil can DROP to below "add" in just 2 mins of idling on the kickstand. Obviously the latest model oil pump was not returning the oil from the crankcase to the pan at the same rate it was being pumped to the top end.

My view is its really just a matter of time. A stock bike might take 4-5 of those loops, maybe more but eventually sumping would show its ugly head. That's just my opinion based on my experience with 3 sumping engines. Its all a matter of time, load & temps.