Bone dry transmission dipstick
#41
09-21-2018, 04:00 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Well, I changed my trans oil two weeks ago, and I had this experience with it. Following the book, after a good long drain, I opened a new can of Form+, poured out of it 4 measured oz into a marked container. That should have left 28 oz remaining in the can, which I did not confirm by checking it, but I assume it is correct because it is unlikely the can is over-full. I then poured the contents of the can into the trans and checked the level. It was right AT the bottom line, actually showing a hair above the line because my garage floor slopes the rear wheel a little lower than the front, which seems to make the trans oil level show a hair higher on the dip. I added 2 oz from the marked container. This brought the level to a little higher than halfway between top and bottom marks on the dip.
I considered leaving it there, but decided to just add the remainder of the marked container, which should have brought the trans up to 32 oz, the full U.S. quart. Now my trans dip showed OVERFULL by about the same as shown in the photo posted above. So, I think you are correct, they just dumped the full can of oil in there and forgot about it. Probably no harm. That isn't much oil. I couldn't stand it, however, and used some plastic tubing to suck about an oz of oil out of the trans, which brought the level exactly to the top line.
I considered leaving it there, but decided to just add the remainder of the marked container, which should have brought the trans up to 32 oz, the full U.S. quart. Now my trans dip showed OVERFULL by about the same as shown in the photo posted above. So, I think you are correct, they just dumped the full can of oil in there and forgot about it. Probably no harm. That isn't much oil. I couldn't stand it, however, and used some plastic tubing to suck about an oz of oil out of the trans, which brought the level exactly to the top line.
#42
09-21-2018, 04:09 PM
Road Master
one ounce, that's like a straight shot of whiskey! man i thought I was the OCD King but suddenly we have a new contender!!! LOL..joking aside...last time I noticed mine at the Add mark I added the remainder of a bottle I had with 4 ounces in it and it ended up being right at Full
The question to you would be: how certain are you that your bottle had EXACTLY 4 oz in it? I don't think those little marks on the side of the oil bottle are very accurate. That's why I use a separate well-calibrated measure container.
I was surprised at how little oil is found between the bottom and top lines on the dip. I was also surprised at how sensitive the trans is to bike being level fore and aft. A very tiny amount of garage floor slope, common to most all garages, makes quite a difference. Tilt bike to the rear, trans level goes up, and vice visa. Doesn't have much effect on engine oil either way. At least that's what I've noticed while wasting time in the garage.
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mjwebb (09-21-2018)
#43
09-21-2018, 04:16 PM
Road Master
I bet HD attitude would change if there were a crash related to locked-up transmission that resulted from all of its oil being pushed into the primary. That's why I would expect eventually the gov't forces HD to fix it. It's a weird problem. It really must be fixed.
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Campy Roadie (09-21-2018)
#44
09-21-2018, 04:36 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Hey, ain't retirement great? I got lots of time to fool around, and I love it!
The question to you would be: how certain are you that your bottle had EXACTLY 4 oz in it? I don't think those little marks on the side of the oil bottle are very accurate. That's why I use a separate well-calibrated measure container.
I was surprised at how little oil is found between the bottom and top lines on the dip. I was also surprised at how sensitive the trans is to bike being level fore and aft. A very tiny amount of garage floor slope, common to most all garages, makes quite a difference. Tilt bike to the rear, trans level goes up, and vice visa. Doesn't have much effect on engine oil either way. At least that's what I've noticed while wasting time in the garage.
The question to you would be: how certain are you that your bottle had EXACTLY 4 oz in it? I don't think those little marks on the side of the oil bottle are very accurate. That's why I use a separate well-calibrated measure container.
I was surprised at how little oil is found between the bottom and top lines on the dip. I was also surprised at how sensitive the trans is to bike being level fore and aft. A very tiny amount of garage floor slope, common to most all garages, makes quite a difference. Tilt bike to the rear, trans level goes up, and vice visa. Doesn't have much effect on engine oil either way. At least that's what I've noticed while wasting time in the garage.
#46
09-21-2018, 10:00 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
#47
09-22-2018, 12:54 PM
My first thought back then was that someone was going to be cycling down the highway at 75 mph and his transmission was going to seize up and the resulting crash could be fatal. At that point I honestly believed that the Feds would be all over the MOCO like a biting sow. Surely the Federales would mandate that Harley fix the migrating transmissions immediately by ordering a federal recall so as to mitigate the risk of death due to the design problem. Again. if an injury has occurred, I am not aware of it.
So, until an injury occurs, the MOCO does not appear to working on a design change to fix the problem. Granted, they have made a few half assed attempts at mitigating the problem, but no design changes which apparently they believe would be very costly to do. There are lots of us who have the transfer problem and probably many more who are not aware they have the problem. Many riders rely upon their dealer to do their service and since the dealers do not measure fluids before they drop them, nobody really knows how many transmissions are migrating. When it starts to cost the MOCO big money (read lawsuits) then and only then will we see a change in design to really fix the problem. So unless the MOCO design engineers purposely designed this transmission to migrate fluid to the primary case, I feel like the MOCO owes us a real fix that stops the migration once and for all. I don't care if they have to go to a bank and borrow the money to fund the fix, I just want it fixed on their dime, not mine.
Last edited by Retrop; 09-22-2018 at 01:01 PM.
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Campy Roadie (09-22-2018),
GPHDXLC (09-22-2018)
#48
09-22-2018, 07:25 PM
Back about 18 months ago when all this transmission migration first came to light I was laboring under the notion that sooner or later these transmission were bound to seize up due to lack of lubrication. It had 32 ounces in the case and surely it needed that to remain functional without locking up.
My first thought back then was that someone was going to be cycling down the highway at 75 mph and his transmission was going to seize up and the resulting crash could be fatal.
So unless the MOCO design engineers purposely designed this transmission to migrate fluid to the primary case, I feel like the MOCO owes us a real fix that stops the migration once and for all. I don't care if they have to go to a bank and borrow the money to fund the fix, I just want it fixed on their dime, not mine.
#49
09-22-2018, 07:51 PM
When Steve Cole took his Ultra to the dealer for the last time it had transferred all but about 4 oz. of fluid. By the time he got it there the engine was laboring to keep the bike moving.
If Steve’s experience is any indication of how this would take place, it would be a gradual slowing, not a lockup like the brakes malfunctioning.
You can feel that way, but the MOCO probably isn’t going to do what it takes to fix the transfer problem. For $210 I will send you what it takes to fix the problem. If they wanted to fix it I could tell them how to do it and I have sent them the information on my fix. I think I know another way to do it that probably wouldn’t add any cost to the manufacturing process. I’m not sure they’re really interested in hearing about it.
#50
09-23-2018, 08:10 PM
Tourer
Hey, ain't retirement great? I got lots of time to fool around, and I love it!
The question to you would be: how certain are you that your bottle had EXACTLY 4 oz in it? I don't think those little marks on the side of the oil bottle are very accurate. That's why I use a separate well-calibrated measure container.
I was surprised at how little oil is found between the bottom and top lines on the dip. I was also surprised at how sensitive the trans is to bike being level fore and aft. A very tiny amount of garage floor slope, common to most all garages, makes quite a difference. Tilt bike to the rear, trans level goes up, and vice visa. Doesn't have much effect on engine oil either way. At least that's what I've noticed while wasting time in the garage.
The question to you would be: how certain are you that your bottle had EXACTLY 4 oz in it? I don't think those little marks on the side of the oil bottle are very accurate. That's why I use a separate well-calibrated measure container.
I was surprised at how little oil is found between the bottom and top lines on the dip. I was also surprised at how sensitive the trans is to bike being level fore and aft. A very tiny amount of garage floor slope, common to most all garages, makes quite a difference. Tilt bike to the rear, trans level goes up, and vice visa. Doesn't have much effect on engine oil either way. At least that's what I've noticed while wasting time in the garage.
That is the same BS techs/SW/SM told some on here.
I think .....................well............
Last edited by Bob Blehead; 09-23-2018 at 08:11 PM.