M8 metallic noise when opening throttle
#11
Hey all,
Hope you can help me shed some light on this mysterious noise I've been hearing... I have a 2019 Ultra with the 114 engine (slightly upgraded), and whenever I'm giving it some throttle I can hear a sharp metallic kind of noise just at the beginning of giving it some throttle. Always happens just once, through all the gears, whenever I'm accelerating either like shifting up and getting back on the throttle or just going at a steady pace in any gear and turning the throttle. I haven't really noticed it before, but today I heard it very distinct as I was getting on the highway and decided to see if I could replicate it. Sure enough, almost every single time I turn the throttle somewhat rapidly she goes "k-tink!" and then nothing more happens. She runs great, I haven't been able to make the noise happen repeatedly under acceleration so I don't think it's got to do with lugging or pinging... If I'm in sixth doing 100, I can replicate the sound just by pulling the throttle maybe half way or even less. It sounds kinda mechanical, one time when I heard it I thought my front wheel had thrown a small pebble up on the engine or something... Anyone got any ideas what this might be?
Cheers
Hope you can help me shed some light on this mysterious noise I've been hearing... I have a 2019 Ultra with the 114 engine (slightly upgraded), and whenever I'm giving it some throttle I can hear a sharp metallic kind of noise just at the beginning of giving it some throttle. Always happens just once, through all the gears, whenever I'm accelerating either like shifting up and getting back on the throttle or just going at a steady pace in any gear and turning the throttle. I haven't really noticed it before, but today I heard it very distinct as I was getting on the highway and decided to see if I could replicate it. Sure enough, almost every single time I turn the throttle somewhat rapidly she goes "k-tink!" and then nothing more happens. She runs great, I haven't been able to make the noise happen repeatedly under acceleration so I don't think it's got to do with lugging or pinging... If I'm in sixth doing 100, I can replicate the sound just by pulling the throttle maybe half way or even less. It sounds kinda mechanical, one time when I heard it I thought my front wheel had thrown a small pebble up on the engine or something... Anyone got any ideas what this might be?
Cheers
At least that is my speculation.
#12
#13
My ’20 107 does that. I run 91 or 93 when available, and have added Lucas Octane booster, but that had no effect. I’m now running a Fuel Moto tune via Powervision and eliminated some of the rattling/pinging when accelerating, but I still get that distinct Tink Tink when I open it up. Sounds like two small rocks hitting the inside of the front fender, only it’s not, because it is repeatable. As posted above I’ve reached the conclusion that it is such short duration due to the knock sensors causing the ECM to retard the timing.
At least that is my speculation.
At least that is my speculation.
Last edited by 90anlu92; 05-22-2022 at 03:15 PM.
#14
Roger that, maybe I should strive to only fill up with EU98 and see if that helps... Only, that **** isn't available everywhere... Like, do I need to carry a ****ing jerry can of premium with me wherever I go?? That seems less than optimal...
#15
#16
That's exactly how I would describe the sounds I'm hearing. A metallic two-beat, "k-tink" kind of thing. Has to be the same, maybe it's simply a ping... I refuse to believe that this is something that is simply "how it should be" though, so now the question is what to do about it...
#17
It's my opinion that Harley tunes their engines just on the edge of pinging for the peak horse power and torque then relies on the knock sensors to keep it under control. This probably works fine in most conditions but the "plink" comes as the ambient temperature and humidity reach a certain point.
I could be wrong but it is possible the tuner used the default timing table and adjusted the fuel and air mixers. This is what happened when I had my Twin Cam tuned. I would talk to the tuner to see if they can fine tune your timing tables. They could use knock events on recorded runs to fine tune the timing tables in the appropriate ranges.
These days I'm not looking for peak performance so I'm not afraid to sacrifice a little power by pulling some timing off the tables for something that runs a little better when it's 100f out. My primary use for my bike is long range touring. As I said above, I'm not too concerned with the occasional "plink", but one day my obsessive compulsive side will make me do something about it.
I could be wrong but it is possible the tuner used the default timing table and adjusted the fuel and air mixers. This is what happened when I had my Twin Cam tuned. I would talk to the tuner to see if they can fine tune your timing tables. They could use knock events on recorded runs to fine tune the timing tables in the appropriate ranges.
These days I'm not looking for peak performance so I'm not afraid to sacrifice a little power by pulling some timing off the tables for something that runs a little better when it's 100f out. My primary use for my bike is long range touring. As I said above, I'm not too concerned with the occasional "plink", but one day my obsessive compulsive side will make me do something about it.
#18
IMHO, the factory tune is done to get the best out of 93 octane which some states have. Then the knock control is designed to retard spark when it detects knock, which will happen under load with less octane. You will still get a slight ping though. In my experience it takes about 1 oz of Lucas octane boost per gallon of gas to notice a ping reduction.
Remember, octane does not add power, but it allows the motor to develop more power without pre-detonation. As such, lower octane fuel, will result in slightly less performance as knock is detected and the spark retarded yo reduce the knock And consequently reduces power.
Remember, octane does not add power, but it allows the motor to develop more power without pre-detonation. As such, lower octane fuel, will result in slightly less performance as knock is detected and the spark retarded yo reduce the knock And consequently reduces power.
#19
#20
After chasing this identical issue since late 2020 I’d first like to say this is probably the most constructive discussion I’ve seen here on the topic so thanks to all for that.
Couple of observations in the case if my 2020 107.
In stock configuration when new, the bike would lightly ping/rattle consistently through the rpms when accelerating the least bit “aggressively”.
I always run name brand 91, usually Exxon/Mobile because that’s what’s available. Shell 93 where available.
I tried adding 2oz (one bottle) of Lucas octane booster per six gallons, which they advertise boosts octane level “3 points for 4-6 gallons” . Did this periodically even after adding a Powervision tuner and running a new tune after datalogs were sent to Fuel Moto. The octane booster at that concentration had no impact on pinging whatsoever. I haven’t tried two (or three) bottles per trigeezer’s recipe for one ounce to one gallon. I may do that.
It wasn’t till I was on a trip last fall around 11,000 miles on the bike where
I recall first hearing the “tink tink”. If memory serves, I needed to hard accelerate in heavy traffic in warm weather from maybe 2500 -2800 rpms through fifth into sixth gear to 85 mph on an expressway ramp that I first heard it. Wondered if it was rocks hitting the inside of the front
fender, till it did it on the return trip identically, and very occasionally will do that in similar riding conditions.
Interstingly, the consistent ping/ rattle (like “castanets“, think flamenco dancer for us old farts) when accelerating seems to have largely diminished.
One interesting point, when I sent data logs to FM their observation was that any knock events they could see in the logs where considered “normal” and they were surprised that I could even hear them.
Also, I can’t say for sure if I was ever able to log the “tink tink” events last fall when I was adding the tuner.
ETA: I had the two clutch side spark plugs out last week and it’s pretty safe to say the bike is not running lean.
Couple of observations in the case if my 2020 107.
In stock configuration when new, the bike would lightly ping/rattle consistently through the rpms when accelerating the least bit “aggressively”.
I always run name brand 91, usually Exxon/Mobile because that’s what’s available. Shell 93 where available.
I tried adding 2oz (one bottle) of Lucas octane booster per six gallons, which they advertise boosts octane level “3 points for 4-6 gallons” . Did this periodically even after adding a Powervision tuner and running a new tune after datalogs were sent to Fuel Moto. The octane booster at that concentration had no impact on pinging whatsoever. I haven’t tried two (or three) bottles per trigeezer’s recipe for one ounce to one gallon. I may do that.
It wasn’t till I was on a trip last fall around 11,000 miles on the bike where
I recall first hearing the “tink tink”. If memory serves, I needed to hard accelerate in heavy traffic in warm weather from maybe 2500 -2800 rpms through fifth into sixth gear to 85 mph on an expressway ramp that I first heard it. Wondered if it was rocks hitting the inside of the front
fender, till it did it on the return trip identically, and very occasionally will do that in similar riding conditions.
Interstingly, the consistent ping/ rattle (like “castanets“, think flamenco dancer for us old farts) when accelerating seems to have largely diminished.
One interesting point, when I sent data logs to FM their observation was that any knock events they could see in the logs where considered “normal” and they were surprised that I could even hear them.
Also, I can’t say for sure if I was ever able to log the “tink tink” events last fall when I was adding the tuner.
ETA: I had the two clutch side spark plugs out last week and it’s pretty safe to say the bike is not running lean.
Last edited by gonemad; 05-23-2022 at 06:41 AM.