Synthetic REALLY Necessary?
#42
03-25-2009, 11:32 PM
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it's called "dino" as in "dinosaur" oil because it's refined from crude oil which is composed of mushy prehistoric flora, fauna and critters..
Synthetic is formulated in a lab from selected polymers and additives to achieve a specific performance setpoint, one of the reasons it lubricates better than average. However diesel specific oils are also refined for a specific temperature and millage setpoint and are not constrained by the same EPA criteria as automotive gas engine oils. They're designed for extended drain intervals and extreme temperatures in heavy duty long haul semi's and other diesels and are approved for use as a gear oil by all major manufacturers, that's why they work so well in a/c bike engines.
Synthetic is formulated in a lab from selected polymers and additives to achieve a specific performance setpoint, one of the reasons it lubricates better than average. However diesel specific oils are also refined for a specific temperature and millage setpoint and are not constrained by the same EPA criteria as automotive gas engine oils. They're designed for extended drain intervals and extreme temperatures in heavy duty long haul semi's and other diesels and are approved for use as a gear oil by all major manufacturers, that's why they work so well in a/c bike engines.
Last edited by stevent; 03-25-2009 at 11:36 PM.
#43
03-26-2009, 12:00 AM
Mineral based oils are called "dino" because they originated from dead dinosaurs. That said...many synthetics have highly refined "dino" base stocks Syn3 being one of them.
#44
03-26-2009, 09:36 AM
I'm not brainwashed......there is plenty of scientific evidence out ther that definitely proves synthetic oils oxidize at higher temps than mineral based oils. Where have you been?
#45
03-26-2009, 09:42 AM
One thing that can be said for certain is that synthetic oil is NOT necessary, no matter what you might hear these days.
My dealership mechanic friend has told me (which comes as no surprise) that even today the majority of bikes they service run regular conventional oil, and inventory records show that conventional oil is purchased more often than not by those that do their own service.
I'd hate to think how many untold millions of miles have been put on Harley's running 'dino oil', and this includes bikes that are run in the hottest weather conditions. In fact up until just a few years ago Harley themselves said to stay away from synthetic fluids, and engines didn't suffer any noticeable distress running dino oil, even those with very high mileage.
Harley engines don't worry 1/10th as much about the fluid you pour in the engine as their owners, and as long as the container says "Oil" on the label, and as long as you change the filer/oil at reasonable intervals the engine will be perfectly happy for as many miles as you want to ride.
Sure, I like to a good synthetic, and right now I'm running 'top end' RedLine 20W60HD synthetic, but it isn't necessary.
If I woke up tomorrow and found that the only oil available was HD360 20W50, Castrol GTX 20W50, or even Rotella T 15W40 I wouldn't worry in the least about using it for the life of the bike.
My dealership mechanic friend has told me (which comes as no surprise) that even today the majority of bikes they service run regular conventional oil, and inventory records show that conventional oil is purchased more often than not by those that do their own service.
I'd hate to think how many untold millions of miles have been put on Harley's running 'dino oil', and this includes bikes that are run in the hottest weather conditions. In fact up until just a few years ago Harley themselves said to stay away from synthetic fluids, and engines didn't suffer any noticeable distress running dino oil, even those with very high mileage.
Harley engines don't worry 1/10th as much about the fluid you pour in the engine as their owners, and as long as the container says "Oil" on the label, and as long as you change the filer/oil at reasonable intervals the engine will be perfectly happy for as many miles as you want to ride.
Sure, I like to a good synthetic, and right now I'm running 'top end' RedLine 20W60HD synthetic, but it isn't necessary.
If I woke up tomorrow and found that the only oil available was HD360 20W50, Castrol GTX 20W50, or even Rotella T 15W40 I wouldn't worry in the least about using it for the life of the bike.
Nice testimony to dino oils but today's engines are quite different so your logic is sort of flawed based on the fact that the newer engines are tuned from the factory so lean and generate so much more heat that the older engines did. One simple way to protect your engine without add on oil coolers etc. is to simply use a synthetic oil.
#46
03-26-2009, 10:58 AM
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Nice testimony to dino oils but today's engines are quite different so your logic is sort of flawed based on the fact that the newer engines are tuned from the factory so lean and generate so much more heat that the older engines did. One simple way to protect your engine without add on oil coolers etc. is to simply use a synthetic oil.
An easy way to fit a 'heat problem' on the newer bikes is very simple. Tune the thing for the correct air/fuel mixture, as they come very lean from the factory to comply with EPA requirements.
Tuning a bike is not that difficult, but I guess if you want to spend the money for oil coolers (etc.) that's your choice.
The fact is that most of the 'newer bikes' on the road today are running regular 'dino oil', without any problems, and that synthetic oil, no matter how good it might be isn't necessary or required.
#47
03-26-2009, 01:01 PM
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You are right all oil doesn't matter whether in a car bike trike anything needs to be changed inbetween 3-5k miles no oil should ever be left in longer than that, not full synthetic is still get metal shavings in it which go into other parts of the engine and cause pitting and so forth. personally conventional oil and every 3k is the way to make your anything last the longest.
VW Golf Tdi goes about 20,000 miles or 2 years as per their service schedule. I suspect they also know what they are doing. They are not alone in this type of service schedule.
I personally have had UOA's done so I have first hand experience with how my oil behaves and even at 6000 miles there is no sign of any excessive contaminants in the oil and the addetive package is still going strong.
Change your oil every 50 miles for all I care. If it makes you happy I applaud your service regime, however I doubt you'll get any more miles out of your engine than I will.
I change engine oil at 5000 along with the filter and if I'm on a trip and it dont get done for another 1000 miles I dont sweat it.
#48
03-26-2009, 10:14 PM
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the big cahuna is right i went from having metal shavings when i was useing syn3
which is cheap crap from citgo to no metal shavings what so ever thats why i use
a good synthtetic brand-ride safe
which is cheap crap from citgo to no metal shavings what so ever thats why i use
a good synthtetic brand-ride safe
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