Indians do have compensators. Look at this clip at 2.00 and see for yourself.
I wish it were as simple as the sky is falling hype. I don't mean any disrespect with my information. Harley has produced and is still producing hundreds of thousands of compensators above their production needs for a good reason. Most being sold after bikes are out of warranty and a sizable percentage replaced under warranty. This goes on to this day. Yes the comp is better in that it will last longer due to a small amount of oil getting to it now. It will not provide a service life anywhere close to the service life of the engine and drive train.
There are some of the hundreds of folks I have personally visited with that have not had failures. We have studied it but have no definitive answer as to why a few perform OK.
As I travel around the country I have visited dealers all over and still do. I have seen piles, buckets full, metal drums full of trashed Harley compensators. It is the exception for me to ask the service folks if they have any bikes in for comp problem and have them say no, the exception. My local dealer keep a minimum of 7 units in stock at all times due to demand. So the sky is falling I don't think so.
If it were not a broad problem then why the BDL, Hoben/DarkHorse and Baker efforts to come up with an answer. In 2009 I purchased an Untra and went through 4 comps under warrant. Then went to a Trike in late 2010 and went through 3 comps on it under warranty and said enough. That is why there is a fix available.
RichardK

 

It's gear to gear, no primary chain, apples to oranges.

 

Yes Apples to Oranges to some extent. The Indian engine rotates the opposite direction of the Harley. The Harley has 3 separated oil containments, engine, trans and primary and the Indian does not have that. The Indian is indeed a gear to gear primary drive and the Harley is chain drive. The point being made is that if you lay an Indian comp and a Harley comp on the bench and really look at the functional design they both are very similar and do the same thing. Of course the Indian comp is vastly better machined but that is not why they are reliable and the Harley units are not. When you study the lubrication flows and dynamics in each you will find the Indian has a continuous and generous oil flow to the comp. There are many reason for this and I will not bore everyone by going into that now. The point is they are reliable because they have proper lubrication. The Harley is NOT reliable because it does not get that necessary continuous and generous flow of oil. (better with to 2014 version but not right for the long haul) Again I will not bore everyone with a rehash of that detail that is easily googled. Lube the comp and it will last. It is that simple. No,, not as quiet as the Indian from the poor and no machining but does exactly what it was designed to do.
RichardK

 

I agree with you 100%. As mentioned in my first post, we all agree that the HD comp needs considerable improvements. Just looking at the rough cast surface of the SE comp should make you expect eventual failure. Even with the improved oiling of the new comp. I imagine that a minimal resurfacing of the contact points prior to initial installation could extend compensator life.

That being said, I still firmly believe that lugging the engine contributes to and accelerates compensator failure. It places more load on the comp and causes the sprocket to travel further across the sliding cam lobes. As the sprocket travel increases across the cam, spring load and friction increase. This equals accelerated failure. Higher RPM and inertia are your friend in this situation.

 

I am not disagreeing with on the lugging as that does cause the comp to work more. The biggest thing that works the comp is highway cruising. What you say is on the mark that the more you work a mechanical assembly the more ware you will experience. Like I have said get it well oiled and it will last no matter how you chose to ride. For example your engine with a good oil supply will run for well over 100,000 miles. Drain all but about 1/2 a quart of oil and see how long it will run. That is close to what we have with these new comps. The older styles were running with virtually no oil. The as cast working surfaces is a hole other conversation with a ton of info on it. This is all good info and I appreciate the conversation.
RichardK

 

 

I guess my pic on Post #9 of this Thread is just some kind of photo shop effort. That comp had only about 6000 miles on it, maybe it needs to completely fall apart before some will say something is wrong...I just think anything in an engine that is shedding metal consistantly is not a good thing - call me crazy, I guess.

 

After seeing that new Indian 111 motor HD is way behind in the game......although still odd that they would do a cam tensioner setup.

 

If running the engine below 2500 rpm in 5th or 6th is bad, why does Harley's factory gearing on the 2014 and newer bikes run them at under 2200 rpm at 60 mph?

Jim G

 

Jim, you are correct about the cruising RPM. Like I said highway cruising especially with a bagger loaded and 2 up works the hell out of the compensator. Yes lugging does also, but highway speeds at those steady RPMs and pulsing away for hours at a time, the worst. Here are a couple of pics(no not modified in any way) of a 08A comp we inspected after well over 45,000 miles and it has been getting oil. This is from a bagger with a sidecar most of the miles were loaded full and 2 up with a ton of cross country running.