2005 Roadking with only stage one upgrade developed an engine rattle at 500-600 miles from new. Dealer suggested "standard" Now at 2300 miles the rattle is no better but worstening. Sounds very much like a loose tappet type noise. Any help much appreciated.

 

Have a similar situation on my 05 RKC. Noise starts at about 2800 rpm. I have wondered if it is cam related.
Hope we get some input.

 

H-D changed my engine at 10k miles due to excessive engine valve train noise. Was called by factory engine tech after he tore down the old engine. He said one of the rear cam lobes was worn completely out. I believe H-D cams are made of butter kind of like Chevy cams were in the '80s. If the leading edge of the cam lobs get a wierd profile to them it causes the valves to be noisy. If they won't do anything for you then start the procedure for the Lemon Law. That's what I did at the recommendation of a Harley dealer mechanic after three dealers told me it was normal.

The new engine started making the same rattle after a few k miles. I wish I had switched over to Mobil 1 and installed a cooler earlier. Have finally done so now but the engine sounds crappy.

 

Before obsessing on this, I think tappet noise is entirely normal for an engine with a long valve train (cams to pushrods to rocker arms to valves) like the Harley. Mine makes the same noise about 2500 rpm and I have 26,000 miles on it and it's going strong. If you want to eliminate tappet noise, you'd have to go to the overhead cam engine on the V-rod or other numerous bikes that have them. They won't look like a classic Harley engine and they won't sound like a classic Harley engine, but you won't get the tappet noise.

 

Hello RB. I agree that the engine is a pretty funky design for the 21st century. However, push rod type engines with hydraulic lifters have been in use for years and are mostly quite. I have two Dodge vans with V6 engines and my push rod V6 is totally quite compared to my wife's overhead cam V6. Harley's problems in the timing chest of the TC88 are notorious at this point and we should hold them to the grind stone for it. Among the TC88 owners I ride with the only one's who don't complain about the racket are those who gut their mufflers so that the exhaust noise is almost unbearable. In fact, I usually enjoy riding with "empty pipers" so that I too can't hear the valve train noise.

I wonder why the engines are quiet at first then. This fellow's engine noise started very, very early but mine sounded good for a couple k miles. Both engines! What about the tensioner problem. Imagine seeing a sign in a motorcycle dealer's window that stated their engines needed a partial tear down and inspection at 25k because the chain tensioner is prone to wear out and wreck the engine. it's almost funny! For Sale - the #1 Motorcycle in the World, but you must tear it down from time to time.

 

Square Dude,

I appreciate your comments, and it looks like you had a bad cam in your engine. I'm glad Harley fixed it for you and I hope it was an isolated incident. But I don't see why the sounds emitting from the mechanical guts of most TC 88s is a major issue. The TC 88 has hydraulic lifters, but comparison to car engines isn't fair. Cars have water cooled engines that are surrounded by a sound-insulating coolant jacket. They run cooler, maintain a constant temperature and therefore don't expand and contract as much as an air-cooled engine. Harley does have a quieter engine, the Revolution, which is in the VRSC: water-cooled, four overhead cams driven by chains with hydraulic tensioners. The Revolution may be the future of all Harley engines but I can't imagine everyone will want it. The classic Harley engine owes its looks to those big-finned, air-cooled jugs. The TC 88 is not perfect, but it's still a magnificent piece of engineering -- keeping a 100-year-old anachronism still functioning as a viable internal combustion device. The Japanese can make a big V twin that runs quieter and costs less than a Harley. Their engineers are geniuses. They build them in factories in Asia. But those engines are still wannabes. They barely put a dent in Harley sales.

The cam chain tensioner shoe issue is thrown out by many as a Harley disaster but it is way overblown. So far, nobody has documented widespread failures of Harley engines due to cam chain tensioner failure. To hear some tell it, every TC88 is a ticking time bomb, ready to melt down because the cam chain tensioner shoes are disintegrating. I've asked for evidence many times on forums and at dealers and among guys standing around bitching about it, but nobody has cited any evidence that it is the major problem in most Harley TC 88s. Yes, if you're running hi-lift cams and hi-tension valve springs, if you're drag racing or winding the engine to red line all the time you probably are going to destroy the tensioners so you need gear drive cams. But there are s**t loads of Harley's with TC88s clattering down the roads that haven't been refit with gear drive cams and they seem to be doing just fine.

If you think Harley may be doing a cover up, who's to say that some dealers and vendors of gear drive cams aren't stoking the tensioner fire in order to sell gear drive cams and expensive upgrades to people who don't need them? Sort of like the few doctors who use fear to do unneeded surgery in order to beef up their cash flow. I have 26,000 miles on my bike and I asked my local dealer's service guy (I didn't buy the bike from him) if I should have him pull the cam cover and check the tensioner shoes. He said not to worry, that failures at 25,000 are rare despite the rumor mill stories. He said he'd be glad to do it and charge me $600 (might as well install new tensioners if you have it down), but it would be a waste of my money. I'll trust this dealer over the one you mentioned who had the sign in the window.

 

Thanks RB. I appreciate your thoughts. Your statement that the TC88 is a fine work of engineering brought to mind an experience I had during my 25 years in the auto repair business. While attending the GM training center one time an engineer walked in holding that miserable R4 a/c compressor and stated that it was absolutely the best compressor anyone ever made! A few days later the junk dealer came by our shop to picked up our old water pumps and compressors and such for the rebuilders. His truck was topped off with locked up R4 compressors!

I've read many posts where riders complain their engines make too much noise and not many that say what a sweet sounding motor it is. My heart goes out to them because my first year of owning a H-D was very bad because of the problem I had. I truly believe that if I had not switched over to synthetic oil when I did I would be spending big bucks on this second engine now. As it is, the early on damage was done and now it is just a matter of living with it.

Actually, what happened is I went to Mancuso H-D where the new engine had been installed to asked about all the metal particles in my oil filter. I was told by the service manager not to worry (!!!) but to bring it in at 25k and let them tear it down. I'm an endurance, long-life kind of guy in everything I own. If it won't last with the excellent care I take it ain't no good. And that sign I mentioned didn't actually appear anywhere and I know H-D would never put it up in the first place.

I would still recommend any buyer that didn't like what he was hearing to take any measure necessary to make H-D correct the situation. That business about "they all make that noise" is crazy. At that price is should run like a top.

 

Square Dude,

I totally agree with your advice that if there's an unusual noise that goes beyond the base clatter, then it should be checked. And HD should be made to pay for it if its under warranty and continue to improve reliability. I just think some riders spend a lot of time needlessly fretting about every sound they hear. It's an anxiety level that detracts from the fun of riding. Just buy an extended warranty and then ride, ride, ride.

I totally appreciate your comments, esp. with your years in auto repair to back it up. I'm a shade tree mechanic beginning with a Cushman scooter and 56 Chevy two-door post, so I expect it to perform, esp. if I paid a lot of money for it.

But what I'm saying is that nothing's perfect and that goes for Harleys as well as all other mechanical devices. I've heard - have no firsthand knowledge - that BMW bikes also have some major quality issues. As for the price of a Harley, yes, it's exorbitant and I did 20 years of soul searching before I decided to buy one -- primarily due to the high cost vs. quality issue you are describing. I think the TC 88 was a major improvement and it's been around for seven or eight years now and seems to have legs. I'm willing to overlook motor noise as long as the bike goes well for the long run and I know a lot of Harley riders who have had no trouble and they have 75,000+ miles on their motors. Like I said, maybe I'm lucky and my motor is running like a top even though it makes noise. I'm used to old British bikes that sound like they are falling apart (and they usually are) even when they are idling. So the Harley engine sounds pretty tight to me. To be honest, if I were looking for a motor that was tight, highly dependable and reasonably priced, I would probably buy one of the Hondas. By the looks of sales figures, that's what most motorcylists all over the world do.