Thanks for the post; particulalry good information about the upgrading of the Ultima six speed. I have a couple of questions/comments that I wouldl like you to speak to if you don't mind.

I have become acuainted with a member of another forum that installed an Utiima six speed gearset in his Deuce, '06 I believe but could have been earlier. In the course of his due diligence and decision making process he had a conversation with the owner of Iron Horse Warehouse, the company that supplied the Ultima gear set; the owner's name is Luke. My friend asked Like why the Baker gear sets are so much more expensive that the Ultima. Luke replied by lettting my friend know that he knows Bert Baker personally and he knows their products well. Luke that Baker makes their own cases here in the USA. However, the gears that go into the Baker transmission comes from the same factory in Korea as does Ultima, Jim's, Revtec and Baker. They are the same exact gears for all four companies from the same factory. Further, he could not explain why Baker charges so much more for the same gear set as Ultima. So, if that is true and it would appear that Luke would have no reason to misrepresent, spending three of four time more for a Baker gear set is money spent for the Baker rep and not for higher quality.

Since you have seen the internals of Baker, Revtec and MoCo, I would like your opinion based on your observations.

I was considering, still am, the Johnson Twist Gear setup ialong with a trans sprocket change that would produce qucker acceleration in 104 but also drop highway rpms by about 250rpms. Considering that route n lieu of a six speed to save money. However, the Ultima trans for $559 only cost about $100 more, would be a an easier install, plus, should it go **** up, I still have the OEM five speed.

My friend did have some trouble getting the clutch adjusted but a cable replacement solved that problem; OEM cable was too long. He also had trouble with the neutral light; he never did get it to come on when the trans was in neutral.

BTW, his Harley dealer installed the gearset for him and worked with him post installation to solve the problems.

He purchased the Ultima gear set in January 2009, so I woud assume that the gearset he purchased as not the ugraded unit? Do you know the scope of the upgrades and when they were made? Have you received/installed the upgraded unit? If one was ordering an Ultima six speed, could one assume it is an upgraded unit or do you think one would have to request an upgraded unit? Midwest recently had a sale on the Ultima six speed; about $100 off IIRC. I wonder if they were dumping the pre-upgrade inventory?

TIA for your thoughts and comments.

 

I've always been pretty sure the gear sets were the same for some time now. I'm just hesitant to state it as so many Baker owners refuse to believe it. One guy on another board actually called me a hater, LOL! In fact, now that the Ultima gear set has been upgraded I'd assume they have all been upgraded.

One thing however, while I'm sure the gear sets are all produced in the same place, and made from the same materials, I do think they are manufactured to different specifications. The gears that comes with the Ultima definitely seem to be a lower ratio gear set than the others. I'm not entirely sure on that, it's just a riding impression. And it's possible the final cut on the gears may be somewhat different too. I stated (in the other post) the Ultima shifts smooth, but I was careful not to say it's the smoothest shifting transmission out there.

Another cross over, however, may be the new updated pawl spring. Baker is now touting a new style pawl spring to replace the scissor spring which even on their website they admit sometimes fails. Ultima is saying they also have a new pawl spring. Coincidence? I'll know when my new Ultima transmission arrives but I'm betting (and kinda hoping) it's the same new style spring.

Here's the new Baker spring:



So why are Bakers almost four times the cost of an Ultima? Well, the cases are definitely prettier and better finished. The bearings, hardware, and overall quality control is probably better. And you can't argue (even if based on nothing more than people's perceptions) the resale value on a Baker is much higher. How many times have you heard people say, "That bike is worth the price because it has all high end parts!" Nobody ever says that about a bike with Ultima parts on it, LOL!

But probably the biggest reason Ultima sells transmissions so cheaply is because worldwide they sell tons of them. Higher volume simply means lower pricing . . . And for every guy I know that runs a Baker I know ten that say they would, but . . . $$$!

As for your last questions, yes, I'm sure if you ordered from Jireh (at least on E-Bay) you'd get the new upgraded transmission. Their adverts there specifically say it's the upgraded version transmission. And the fellow I talked with at Midwest seemed so happy to be able to offer the newer versions I'd bet he's done messing with the older models hence, like you mentioned, the recent blowout on re-furbished units.

One thing I did notice though. The older versions shipped with a two year, 20,000 warranty, but the new versions only carry a 1 year, 12,000 mile warranty. It may be they are a bit gun shy as that first warranty may have bit into their bottom line. But I'm not ready to say it's an overall quality issue, I'd like to think guys who build their own bikes tend to beat the **** out of them. While our store bought brethren tend to ride like old ladies protecting their 25 G investment, LOL! (Just kidding on the last part!)

 

Thanks for the response. Please post or PM me after you have a few miles on the new Ulitma six speed; I would like to hear your impressions.

 

I got the SE-6 with overdrive gear set installed about 4 years ago...and love it.

If it's available for your bike you should look into it.

 

Baker gets their gears from Andrews and they are made in Mt. Prospect, Illinois ...probably the same for Jims...kinda bet not for Revtec...who knows about Ultima

 

My information is second hand but comes from a very reliable source; the owner of Iron Horse Warehouse, one of the, perhaps the largest supplier of aftermarket HD parts in the country. As I said in my post, he also claims to be personal friends with Bert Baker. I don't know why Luke (Iron Horse) would make up a story. If he claims that the gears for Baker, Ultima, Jims and Revtecall come from the same factoy in Kores, I believe him. Luke's telephone number is (866) 711-6229.

Just curious, what is the source of your information? I stand to be corrected if I have been misinformed.

 

I put an Ultima tranny in my 86 softail (not an easy job), and with under 5000 miles on it,its failed already.

I have the eact same problem, no gears above 2nd, but when I pulled the tranny top, the spring doesn't look to be broken, can anything else cause this.

As far as dealing with Mid West, 2 emails, 2 phone calls, and nothing back yet.

 

Well, I got a phone call today, and they said they will call back tomorrow with a decision. When I bought my tranny, the warranty was 2 years, 20,000 miles, but the shop I bought it from has gone out of business. The new warranty is only 1 year, and 12,000 miles, so this will be a good test of how well they back up their product, considering that although I've had the tranny for about 18 months, its only got about 5000 km on it.

 

You can believe that if you want. I sure don't. I do know Baker is proud to be an American manufacturer, and would not settle for the shortcuts in gear manufacturing that the Koreans use. Things like diamond grinding the gears for finish aren't in the Koreans reportoir. You don't get that for $699.

 

That pretty much speaks for the confidence they have in their tranny's, don't it?

Good luck with Mid West, hopefully they'll take care of you