Harley Springer 4.5 Deg Rake Kit
#91
04-05-2013, 08:35 PM
This is cool but I must be the only one with an FL Springer that loves that "ran into the back of a bus" look. With the fat wheels and the overall meatiness of my bike I think it is a perfect look. Sort of like a fist punching a wall. The longer bikes get, the more "delicate" they look to me.
I can see how on some applications it could be awesome, but not for me. Also, the trail isn't as big an issue on springers as the rocker positioning is. This is why the rake doesn't affect handling much, but a lowering kit does.
#92
04-05-2013, 11:12 PM
One thing my buddy who is an excellent mc mechanic always tells me. He says Ill never have the resources HD has to engineer and test designs on our bikes like they do. I looked at this mod and he cautioned against it because he believes you are giving away too much handling with a squirrelly fall away.
#93
04-06-2013, 10:34 PM
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One thing my buddy who is an excellent mc mechanic always tells me. He says Ill never have the resources HD has to engineer and test designs on our bikes like they do. I looked at this mod and he cautioned against it because he believes you are giving away too much handling with a squirrelly fall away.
I am strongly considering putting the stock parts back on and calling it a day, unless the voice of experience can provide a magic cure.
JS
Last edited by scooter223; 04-06-2013 at 10:38 PM.
#94
04-09-2013, 07:17 PM
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#95
04-09-2013, 07:30 PM
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#96
04-09-2013, 09:38 PM
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Sure,
I installed the kit about 5 months ago. Everything went pretty smoothly. I was able to remove the stock stem from the springer fork using a driver that I turned up on the lathe that rested on the shoulder of the stem rather than the threaded end. I put the fork assy on a 2" iron pipe and pounded the stem out with a big hammer. It came out with a lot of persuation, but was completely unharmed. This was probably the most difficult part of the install.
I then mounted the unassembled fork in the mill vise and drilled and tapped it for the set screw that is tightened against the flat cut in the spindle. In talking to Joe at Vulcan Engineering, I found out that the flat is not as precision cut on the lower angled portion as the actual angled portion is, so you can't truly trust the flat is exactly in the perect spot. This is good info for later in the explanation.
Once the fork was drilled and tapped and stock stem removed, I was able to reassemble the front end taking careful note of each of the bushings in the axle assy. When I assembled the front end, I could never get the riser bolts to perfectly line up with the tree, but was able to get them in by applying hand pressure on the tree and fork. Once the bolts were started, tightening to the point where the cone section of the bolt engages the tree applied additional lateral pressure on the stem and bearings. To combat the tightness of the stem bearings, I added some slop in the bearing nut which just didn't work out so well. It just wasn't the right answer and made the bike very hard to ride and control. Even made the handlebars feel like they were very hard to turn while riding to the point of feeling dangerous.
For several weeks, I was beside myself and thought I installed kit that didn't work well.
Today, I put the bike back on the the lift and raised the front wheel off the ground, loosened the bottom stem retainer bolt that came with the kit and also loosened the bottom set screw. Then, I removed the tree and inspected everything. I came to the conclusion that the kit stem had to somehow be indexed incorrectly causing unwanted pressure. I tightened the bearing nut to the proper feel, eliminating any slop in the bearings. Once the bearing nut was properly tightened, but not overly tightened, I installed a temporary jam nut (1/2-13 standard course thread nut) on the top portion of the stem, locking the bearing nut in place using a 1 3/8" and 3/4" wrenches. This enabled me to put a 3/4" socket on the jam nut and rotate the entire stem a few degrees in either direction in order to find the sweet spot were stem and both riser bolt sockets were closest to being on the same plane. They are never exact, but they get very close. Once the stem is in the proper clock position, I retightened the bottom set screw. I will note that I modified the set screw in the lathe by lightly removing the cup point from the screw, leaving a relatively flat point as to not scar up the flat on the stem. The set screw must have blue loctite.
Once everything was lined up and the set screw was tightened, I then installed the tree, removed the jam nut being careful not to move the bearing nut and then installing the riser bolts. You will most likely need to apply a little hand pressure to one side of the tree once one of the bolts is started. Once both bolts are started, they can be tightened. At this point, I will mention that I cut a shallow relief channel around the radius in the neck of the bearing nut in the lathe the same height that the tree pointed set screw engages the bearing nut. This is a very good idea to do because when you tighten the top set screw, the point digs into the diameter of the bearing nut as it is supposed to do, however the metal that it displaces makes it very hard to remove the tree if you need to, and you will. The relief channel alleviates the binding action of the metal displacement.
Once everything is tightened and the fork rotates without excessive bearing bind, I tightened the bottom retainer bolt in the bottom of the stem. Once tightened, I noticed that the fork would not rotate freely, which motivated me to add ill fated slop in the stem bearing in the first place. Once I isolated the problem, I backed the bottom bolt of about a half turn, and the fork moved freely again. I came to the conclusion that somehow the bolt was applying undue pressure on the stem bearing causing bind. I removed the retainer bolt once again and chucked it up in the lathe and removed the radius between the thread and the shoulder in order to install a precisely machined bushing to eliminate the retainer bolt from applying pressure to the bottom of the fork when tight. I measured with a depth mic, the distance from the surface of the fork to the end of the kit stem. The dimension was .200". (Correction 4/10/13: The dimension was .300", there is a .100" x 1.00" shoulder on the retainer bolt) I made a stainless steel bushing with a 1/2" hole to fit over the retainer bolt thread (1/2"-13) that was .210" thick, 1.00" in diameter. This allowed the retainer bolt to be sufficiently tightened also giving .010" clearance between the retainer bolt and the underside of the fork. Once everything was tightened, the fork rotated as it is designed to without excessive bearing bind.
Once it was all put back together, the bike rode better than it ever did. The additional rake did not alter the ride at all and I was able to test it out at all speeds with great confidence. Very smooth, very tight and tracks beautifully. Needless to say, I was very happy I took the time to analyze the problem and make a solution.
Sorry for the long answer, but there really was no short one.
JS
I installed the kit about 5 months ago. Everything went pretty smoothly. I was able to remove the stock stem from the springer fork using a driver that I turned up on the lathe that rested on the shoulder of the stem rather than the threaded end. I put the fork assy on a 2" iron pipe and pounded the stem out with a big hammer. It came out with a lot of persuation, but was completely unharmed. This was probably the most difficult part of the install.
I then mounted the unassembled fork in the mill vise and drilled and tapped it for the set screw that is tightened against the flat cut in the spindle. In talking to Joe at Vulcan Engineering, I found out that the flat is not as precision cut on the lower angled portion as the actual angled portion is, so you can't truly trust the flat is exactly in the perect spot. This is good info for later in the explanation.
Once the fork was drilled and tapped and stock stem removed, I was able to reassemble the front end taking careful note of each of the bushings in the axle assy. When I assembled the front end, I could never get the riser bolts to perfectly line up with the tree, but was able to get them in by applying hand pressure on the tree and fork. Once the bolts were started, tightening to the point where the cone section of the bolt engages the tree applied additional lateral pressure on the stem and bearings. To combat the tightness of the stem bearings, I added some slop in the bearing nut which just didn't work out so well. It just wasn't the right answer and made the bike very hard to ride and control. Even made the handlebars feel like they were very hard to turn while riding to the point of feeling dangerous.
For several weeks, I was beside myself and thought I installed kit that didn't work well.
Today, I put the bike back on the the lift and raised the front wheel off the ground, loosened the bottom stem retainer bolt that came with the kit and also loosened the bottom set screw. Then, I removed the tree and inspected everything. I came to the conclusion that the kit stem had to somehow be indexed incorrectly causing unwanted pressure. I tightened the bearing nut to the proper feel, eliminating any slop in the bearings. Once the bearing nut was properly tightened, but not overly tightened, I installed a temporary jam nut (1/2-13 standard course thread nut) on the top portion of the stem, locking the bearing nut in place using a 1 3/8" and 3/4" wrenches. This enabled me to put a 3/4" socket on the jam nut and rotate the entire stem a few degrees in either direction in order to find the sweet spot were stem and both riser bolt sockets were closest to being on the same plane. They are never exact, but they get very close. Once the stem is in the proper clock position, I retightened the bottom set screw. I will note that I modified the set screw in the lathe by lightly removing the cup point from the screw, leaving a relatively flat point as to not scar up the flat on the stem. The set screw must have blue loctite.
Once everything was lined up and the set screw was tightened, I then installed the tree, removed the jam nut being careful not to move the bearing nut and then installing the riser bolts. You will most likely need to apply a little hand pressure to one side of the tree once one of the bolts is started. Once both bolts are started, they can be tightened. At this point, I will mention that I cut a shallow relief channel around the radius in the neck of the bearing nut in the lathe the same height that the tree pointed set screw engages the bearing nut. This is a very good idea to do because when you tighten the top set screw, the point digs into the diameter of the bearing nut as it is supposed to do, however the metal that it displaces makes it very hard to remove the tree if you need to, and you will. The relief channel alleviates the binding action of the metal displacement.
Once everything is tightened and the fork rotates without excessive bearing bind, I tightened the bottom retainer bolt in the bottom of the stem. Once tightened, I noticed that the fork would not rotate freely, which motivated me to add ill fated slop in the stem bearing in the first place. Once I isolated the problem, I backed the bottom bolt of about a half turn, and the fork moved freely again. I came to the conclusion that somehow the bolt was applying undue pressure on the stem bearing causing bind. I removed the retainer bolt once again and chucked it up in the lathe and removed the radius between the thread and the shoulder in order to install a precisely machined bushing to eliminate the retainer bolt from applying pressure to the bottom of the fork when tight. I measured with a depth mic, the distance from the surface of the fork to the end of the kit stem. The dimension was .200". (Correction 4/10/13: The dimension was .300", there is a .100" x 1.00" shoulder on the retainer bolt) I made a stainless steel bushing with a 1/2" hole to fit over the retainer bolt thread (1/2"-13) that was .210" thick, 1.00" in diameter. This allowed the retainer bolt to be sufficiently tightened also giving .010" clearance between the retainer bolt and the underside of the fork. Once everything was tightened, the fork rotated as it is designed to without excessive bearing bind.
Once it was all put back together, the bike rode better than it ever did. The additional rake did not alter the ride at all and I was able to test it out at all speeds with great confidence. Very smooth, very tight and tracks beautifully. Needless to say, I was very happy I took the time to analyze the problem and make a solution.
Sorry for the long answer, but there really was no short one.
JS
Last edited by scooter223; 04-10-2013 at 05:11 AM.
#99
04-11-2013, 06:31 AM
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The final verdict for me is: I love it. The bike tracks beautifully at all speeds. It's stretched out just a few inches more and gets the front wheel just a little bit further away from your feet which is especially nice when you install an Arlen Ness forward control extension kit. I just ordered an Arlen Ness lowering kit and kick stand, which will level the bike out nicely.
Took a little bit of thinking about it, but I am really glad I installed it. If you decide to do it and run into a bump in the road, pm me and help I'll you through it. One concern that I would have is installing the kit with full apes. I don't know that it would be an issue, but it's something to think about. If you do have apes, it might pay off for you to call Vulcan and ask for Joe to see what he says.
JS
Took a little bit of thinking about it, but I am really glad I installed it. If you decide to do it and run into a bump in the road, pm me and help I'll you through it. One concern that I would have is installing the kit with full apes. I don't know that it would be an issue, but it's something to think about. If you do have apes, it might pay off for you to call Vulcan and ask for Joe to see what he says.
JS
Last edited by scooter223; 04-11-2013 at 06:40 AM.