Harley is an OEM, building stock bikes, one after the other. They don't tweek each bike's cal IMHO as they would be too worried about the cost. The ECM can handle the minor differences and still suck because the tune is set to satisfy the EPA, not for best performance. And that's where we get into the custom tune.

Chad, I can see and understand the arguments on both sides. That shop was making a profit of your work effort. As a private owner, I liken it to music. I bought it for my enjoyment. I am not using it to generate profit nor am I using it to help anyone else profit. I sometimes like to change it up, play and learn but want the original to remain the same. Kinda like changing the order songs play in to suit my moods. And I get people who screw it up and play the blame game. Tsk tsk on them. Idiots. But there should disclosure. Its not something that should be found out on the road.

As to sharing the tune privately: No to bikes run the same nor do any two riders run them the same or expect the same functionality. Hence the custom part. Like a custom seat. Your *** and my *** may look the same to a degree but that's were similarities end. Same with engines. The devil is in the details. Parts stack up is always an issue. Take me and one of my buddies. Both have softails. Both 95ci engines running Andrews 26n cams. I have ported heads, he don't. He runs V&H and I run CycleShack slipons. We both run flat top SE pistons but his were almost 2 thou over the cylinder were mine were zero. I tightened up the clearances in the cam chest a bit by doing things like shimming the crankshaft gear. He did not. We run different hydraulic cam chain tensioners, Pushrods adjusted differently. Different air filters, different oil filters (mine's a cleanable). Etc, etc. Close, only figuratively. It all adds up. The changes will drive you nuts when tuning. So yeah, while he could run my map, he won't be happy with it and vice versa.

And even if he was port his heads, etc, to match me, I would still bet the stack up will be different unless every thing was blueprinted ($$$). Even then, I would beat him cause he doesn't use the gears the same as I do (frustrates the hell out of him But he is slowing learning!). Which now leads you out of the engine itself. Start considering tires, trans, etc. Rider weight, riding style. Yep. All bikes are the same.

 

Preaching to the choir, I know exactly what you're saying. That's why I don't give out MAPs. I still supply the customer with the MAP though, I look at it as they paid for it, but like I said, I see the argument both ways.

 

is it something thats just done with SE tuner?

 

Ah, not preachin Chad. I still have hope that there are people who can act like human beings and care. Did not mean to come across as talking down or any thing.

For some reason, some dont see their harley engine as being as unique as them.
To me, that it why Harleys have soul.

 

During TTS download. If the VCI becomes unhooked. You need to follow the steps on the screen. If not. There is a chance that the ECM, original MTE, and VCI will have to go to TTS.


The Vision doesn't use a VCI, so it doesn't need to deal with it. The Vision also has a feature now that does allow you to download from a computer and I don't know if it saves it then, but it's all mute. Calibration can be sucked out.

 

Does the TTS/PV have the ability to lock tunes or have the system tampered with to prevent customer from viewing map? As it appears this common

 

Absolutely not disagreeing about someone trying to make a living and intellectual property rights and such.

I also understand tolerances/blue-printing and that one map may indeed not fit all. Your example was for rather a unique build however and that is exactly where good tuners come in. Anyone doing a decent build is going to want an optimum tune to go with it, absolutely!

But, looking in from the outside, it is a really weak argument that someone that does a stage 1 needs a "unique" map though. Stock bikes last long enough with their so-so map that is used in one bike, say the softail, with a few different exhausts. OK so a generic stage 1 map may still suck ...but it will suck a little better, no?

Cams, the argument gets a bit stronger. Heads ...get it tuned properly. Custom build ...obviously.

It is a tricky one, the music and film industry have been trying to work out how to protect their stuff for decades. Maybe we shouldn't have invented little black boxes? don't know.

 

Gordon

You'll have to quote that post where you say a fellow brags about his hacking. I can't find it.

 

They are being hacked, currently in Oz you can buy a "fresh" SE tuner for around $350 vs $615 off dealer,

It works, maps are loaded

 

PM sent
I'll leave it to your discretion Mr Wizard whether it breaks any forum rules or not.