All due respect, but not enough then ...especially if you go past a Stage 1.

Yes they say they reveal all of the tables same as the rest ...but how do you tune them?

• it only works when plugged into the bike and the bike powered on
• there is no logging available
• the live gauge readings they do give, don't include spark knock so how the hell anyone is supposed to be able to tune the spark tables is beyond me?
• anecdotally the Autotune often seems to make things worse and some of the support guys seem to be telling people NOT to autotune but (and ESPECIALLY if you change cams you absolutely HAVE TO autotune because V&H do not have any canned maps that are for this or that cam ...yes you can change the IV)/IVC if you know what you are doing but the settings they say should work for the 57H DON'T ...sorry but they just don't ...at least not on my build with a 57H
• you can not compare different maps to see what autotunes are doing
• you are supposed to be able to share maps now but no idea how that works and as far as I know you still have the can't compare maps problem so who knows what you are getting
• it doesn't tune (or log) the column 0% throttle position on an VE(TPS) config
• no one else can help you with alternative maps, or look at yours to help you out
• anyone know of a professional tuning shop willing to tune with one??

Yes, it is an easy thing to use ...but so is a bicycle compared to a motorcycle ...although, actually the Power Vision is probably even easier to use if you want to go down that discussion.

Anything more than a Stage 1 you are probably best getting what your tuning shop knows and get them to do it properly. THIS IS NOT EASY! Anyone that says it is is lying!! ...unless maybe you just have a stage 1 and or don't really care how well the bike runs.

Remember this so called "autotune" only re-maps the VE tables. Timing, EGR, and the host of other cold start and transient tables they don't even look at ...unless you get a TTS, their VTune3 seems to do waaaay more than the rest.

I gave up with my FP3, my Power Vision is SO much more powerful, functional, and effective.

Greatest thing since sliced bread? ...don't be stupid. Chalk and cheese to PV (and others) ...but if you want one, get one. If you could relicense them I'd give you mine!

EDIT: ok so this is my own personal experience and understanding, but by all means point out anything I got wrong. Oh, and you pay for what you get

 

I think the part you got wrong is, there is no single right answer for everyone. Just because it didn't work for you doesn't make it a bad tuner, just maybe wrong for your application.

And some people just find things are easier to do than others. Take the Scots for instance, they've been trying to gain independence from the English for years. America got it right on the first try!

 

Aw jeez ...not that s**t pleeeeaaase lets NOT start on about the stupid blooming scots nationalists

Absolutely right though, horses for courses as they say. The FP3 seems to be fine for those that have a stage 1 and are ok with a canned map. But I do not like rose tinted glasses or fan-boy comments that do not really advise properly.

These things are three years old now, they should have caught up with the other players. But they still CAN'T do the things I mentioned

...so if that kind of stuff may be important to a potential owner and their plans for their bike

 

I agree, the OP should hear both sides of the story and make an informed decision on which one is best for them. As I stated I did quite a bit of research prior to getting the FP3 and one of the factors that swayed me was that the PV was not MAC compatible and I had no way to download maps that they would send me. I reached out to several forum members that had the FP3 and did either just cams or cams & BB kits and was told that their bikes had never run better. Not to say that would be the case every single time for everyone, but it can done. I could have very well got it and had the same experience you had, but then again we've all read on here where some have bought a new M8 and had nothing but problems with them, doesn't mean my TC96 is a better engine.

I totally get your side and where you're coming from on it, but just because my experience with it is different doesn't qualify it as "rose colored" or "fan-boy". The OP even specifically asked about the FP3 so stating ones opinions or experience shouldn't be categorized as ill-advised.

In the end the OP may be interested in the things you laid out in your post and if it were me asking, I'd want to hear both sides like that to be able to decide what is best for me.

Btw, the Scots thing was in jest and it seems you took it that way.

 

Gads I hoped you were joking about the scots thing (because of all of that flag waving that goes on up here ...I'm very happy to admit I'm English!!)

Experience with something is one thing, but to say
...and yet never mentioned any of the issues or challenges an FP3 owner may face at some point, and indeed tried to suggest that they were...
...is a bit coloured and hints of fan-boy.

Nothing wrong with coloured or fan-boys but I just think that ALL of the info, helps people make informed decisions. I only added the bits you missed.

But again you are right, I did forget about both TTS and Power Vision software needing a microsoft platform ...as does most of the tuning software I've come across. Having said that, I have a whole metric tool set which didn't fit most of the bolts on the Harley ...I had to go buy a pile of Imperials. You get the tools you need to do the job and I didn't want to just get an adjustable wrench because it could do the job.

I know Chris and the team will not like that thought but compared to the TTS and PV there are some obvious gaps that would help the product tremendously. I have one, and I wish they would develop it further than they have. Mind you, Dynojet not letting us change the cam settings is not exactly useful either, lol

Anyways, absolutely right, horses for course, how deep is your pocket, do you need the best tune in the world ...would you even notice, does any of it matter ...I'm sure the OP has done his own reading and research and knows how to cut the wheat from the chaff anyway.

 

Fair enough, my comments are probably based on the assumption that the OP would do the same and read up on some of the challenges or problems encountered and see if they were applicable to them as I did.

I'm going to assume, based on your detailed post, that you have more experience with these devices and that's great info for the OP. I can only relay my experience so far and that is it has worked great for me. Now if I do any further mods down the road, who knows. Perhaps ignorance is bliss in my case.

 

After having used the FP3 and the PV, I can say at this point that the PV may not be quite as user friendly, but the PV does win out over the FP3 in my opinion. For many of the reasons mentioned above. The bluetooth interaction with the FP3 is cool as hell though. You'd think that if they went so far as to make an APP for use, they would include all of the functionality. As of right now, my FP3 is in it's little box sitting on a shelf in my garage collecting dust.....and it will continue to do so. $300 lesson learned.....OUCH!
I'm hoping the FP3 gets enough revisions to be as useful as PV, but right now it's in the box collecting dust. The better deal with PV is that you can buy a used unit and a license and you're good to go. Marry an FP3 to the bike, and they're married FOWEVA!

 

Hey PeteJoe43, what functions of the PV are you using that make it better than the FP3?

 

Axis, I tried for 5 hours to manually change AFR tables, VE, and spark using FP3. This using a proven base tune from a bike with the same setup as my own. After manual value changes in the AFR table for example, the values wouldn't hold and reverted back to original numbers. I thought maybe I was doing something wrong, so I tried several more times, but the values remained unchanged. The tables I tried to copy were from a PV tune I was given. I finally gave up and sent the maps to Cheyne at V&H, after a couple of days he made the changes, put the tune on their server and I downloaded it. Cheyne offered no excuse as to why I couldn't manually change these values. On the other hand, with PV it couldn't be easier from my PC. So it's not so much that the PV is that much better, but for me it was night/day the difference when manually adjusting map values by cell. I'm sure I was doing something wrong, but couldn't figure it out. Also, both dyno tuners I spoke to in my area use PV. For me it was the manual adjustment that I couldn't make that turned me off. Haven't had the first issue with PV.

 

Yeah, it's the PC thing that kills me... I'm an all Apple guy right now.