HARLEY: New S&S T111 - Need Map
#1
07-04-2018, 03:00 AM
New S&S T111 - Need Map
Replacing my 2005 Ultras Twin Cam with an S&S T111 with 58mm Throttle Body and V&H True Dual ovals and need a Screaming Eagle EFI tuner map to start.
Went to update the bike after 50K miles with new base gaskets (weeping got worse) and swing arm bushings. When we opened up the heads found that the rocker arm showed some damage at the pushrod and cracked valve guide which led to wear on the cam which led to the crank (Twin Cams were known for this problem). So new motor. Trying to save some money by not having to replace the exhaust or the EFI.
KenK
Went to update the bike after 50K miles with new base gaskets (weeping got worse) and swing arm bushings. When we opened up the heads found that the rocker arm showed some damage at the pushrod and cracked valve guide which led to wear on the cam which led to the crank (Twin Cams were known for this problem). So new motor. Trying to save some money by not having to replace the exhaust or the EFI.
KenK
#2
07-04-2018, 11:49 AM
Stellar HDF Member
The absolute best advice IMO is to get the bike running enough to do 3-4 heat cycles (start and let idle until warm/hot then let cool completely)
Then take the bike directly to a competent tuner so he can break in the rings and assure fueling and timing are safe.
Leave the decision as to whether to completely tune the bike or send it out for a couple hundred miles before finish tuning at WOT to the tuner.
The end result will be 100% better than trying to find a comparable calibration from a list of canned maps or borrowed from another owner for his bike.
If you follow the above advice your end result will be a much happier one than spending hours and $$ trying to get around professional recalibration (fueling and timing) for your bike and it’s ideosycracies.
Over the years I’ve seen more than a few new engines (builds) get ruined from trying to break in an engine with a canned or borrowed map.
On the Dyno, AFR, knock sensing and retard, temperatures, loads, rpms, as well as any other mechanical issues that may be present, are all done in the controlled setting of a dyno room with someone who understands the importance of calibrating and controlling all these variables while the engine is run for the first time.
IME, it’s never better to put all the aforementioned procedures in the hands of inexperienced riders who do not clearly understand new engine breakin and recalibration for best running is accomplished.
Good Luck with your project,
Bob
Then take the bike directly to a competent tuner so he can break in the rings and assure fueling and timing are safe.
Leave the decision as to whether to completely tune the bike or send it out for a couple hundred miles before finish tuning at WOT to the tuner.
The end result will be 100% better than trying to find a comparable calibration from a list of canned maps or borrowed from another owner for his bike.
If you follow the above advice your end result will be a much happier one than spending hours and $$ trying to get around professional recalibration (fueling and timing) for your bike and it’s ideosycracies.
Over the years I’ve seen more than a few new engines (builds) get ruined from trying to break in an engine with a canned or borrowed map.
On the Dyno, AFR, knock sensing and retard, temperatures, loads, rpms, as well as any other mechanical issues that may be present, are all done in the controlled setting of a dyno room with someone who understands the importance of calibrating and controlling all these variables while the engine is run for the first time.
IME, it’s never better to put all the aforementioned procedures in the hands of inexperienced riders who do not clearly understand new engine breakin and recalibration for best running is accomplished.
Good Luck with your project,
Bob
#3
07-04-2018, 01:57 PM
Thanks Bob that is the plan. I currently have a MAP for a 98" Stage 3 build which may not be good for the new motor. Wanted something closer just for the break-in. The dealer who is doing the work has a Dyno and a Good Tuner that I'll be using. All of the SERT maps that I have are from 2006 and nothing close to the T111. Looking into (calling S&S and Star Power tomorrow) about Throttle Bodies and their recommendations. Hope that I can use the stock one and save $$$$. Its going to be another $800.00 if not.
KenK
KenK
#4
07-04-2018, 03:28 PM
Stellar HDF Member
Thanks Bob that is the plan. I currently have a MAP for a 98" Stage 3 build which may not be good for the new motor. Wanted something closer just for the break-in. The dealer who is doing the work has a Dyno and a Good Tuner that I'll be using. All of the SERT maps that I have are from 2006 and nothing close to the T111. Looking into (calling S&S and Star Power tomorrow) about Thro
ttle Bodies and their recommendations. Hope that I can use the stock one and save $$$$. Its going to be another $800.00 if not.
KenK
ttle Bodies and their recommendations. Hope that I can use the stock one and save $$$$. Its going to be another $800.00 if not.
KenK
If you must find a calibration for your new build try taking the cal for a 95” with 257 cams...and increasing the cubic inches to 100 in the software.
Try that. If still too lean, spitting from intake, increase engine size until it seems happier.
As I mentioned, best for the tuner to do break in with the ability to get it close immediately rather than guess wrong and hurt the new build.
Bob
#5
07-05-2018, 06:19 PM
I just put an S&S T111 in my 2002 Roadglide to replace a 95" build I had 120K on (dyno run in Dyno Chart forum). I'm afraid, if you don't upgrade your EFI, you will be less than happy with that motor. I went with an HPI55-76 and 5.3 injectors. The runner size is slightly smaller than the head ports but, HPI recommended these due to the rough castings of the heads to keepvelocity up. For break-in, I used a 95" map with SE257 cams (similar characteristics) and a similar exhaust. I figured, since I was increasing the displacement about the same amount that I increased the injector size, I might be close on injector pulse width. I ran the Autotune modules for the 900 mile break-in and the trims were never very large with a target AFR of 13.1-13.7 so, it looks like it was pretty close. It ran great for the break-in period with no surge, stumble, or decel pop. In fact, the base run on the dyno after break-in showed a very close curve except I left a lot on the table. It is very much worth the investment to upgrade the intake.
I'm very happy with 131/131.
ETA: Sorry, just noticed you were going with the 58mm TB. I nearly went that route but, all the dyno runs I could find and lengthy talks with HPI made me change to 55 for increased charge velocity. Good luck on what ever you decide.
I'm very happy with 131/131.
ETA: Sorry, just noticed you were going with the 58mm TB. I nearly went that route but, all the dyno runs I could find and lengthy talks with HPI made me change to 55 for increased charge velocity. Good luck on what ever you decide.
Last edited by 99Birdman; 07-05-2018 at 06:34 PM.
#6
07-05-2018, 06:27 PM
By the way, check Mozaic Racing for the HPI stuff. They had the best pricing on TB and Injectors I could find.
https://www.mozaicracing.com/default.aspx
HPI Throttle bodies are a work of art and they will spend as much time as you need to walk you through what is best for your build.
https://www.mozaicracing.com/default.aspx
HPI Throttle bodies are a work of art and they will spend as much time as you need to walk you through what is best for your build.
#7
08-05-2018, 01:48 PM
Update: Thanks everyone for your help I ran into $$$ problems and couldn't afford the S&S 111 so ended up with the HD Long Block replacement for my Twin Cam.
Its a Twin Cam 103 with Andrews TW 54 cams that fits my 2005 Ultra and uses my stock intake Throttle Body, and air cleaner. I have a SERT that I hoped would work with this motor. The Dealer doesn't have the SERT software and is not familiar with it. ( gave him my copy but he said by the time it took him to load it and get familiar (labor rate) if would coast the same as the HD Pro Street Tuner and the Pro would be better.) So I'm hopping that come Monday he will have it broke -in and ready for me to pick it up. I just wish that HD's nickel and dimes weren't really $100 dollars.
Thanks again
KenK
Its a Twin Cam 103 with Andrews TW 54 cams that fits my 2005 Ultra and uses my stock intake Throttle Body, and air cleaner. I have a SERT that I hoped would work with this motor. The Dealer doesn't have the SERT software and is not familiar with it. ( gave him my copy but he said by the time it took him to load it and get familiar (labor rate) if would coast the same as the HD Pro Street Tuner and the Pro would be better.) So I'm hopping that come Monday he will have it broke -in and ready for me to pick it up. I just wish that HD's nickel and dimes weren't really $100 dollars.
Thanks again
KenK
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