Axle now fits. I can get back to work (and not waste my brand new tire on my wagon-wheel for now...).
The 9 spoke wagon wheels are the lightest HD made bagger wheels, maybe not the best looking. Have you thought of a V-Rod wheel if the Enforcer doesn't do it for you? I still have the 18" CVO Road Winder I told you about, but only have the 11.5 rotors.
The 9 spoke wagon wheels are the lightest HD made bagger wheels, maybe not the best looking. Have you thought of a V-Rod wheel if the Enforcer doesn't do it for you? I still have the 18" CVO Road Winder I told you about, but only have the 11.5 rotors.
Where did you find weight specs on Harley wheels? The enforcer looks lighter....
Where did you find weight specs on Harley wheels? The enforcer looks lighter....
On a forum, don't remember which though. It was before the Enforcer wheels came out it does look lighter.
I have had experience with different stock Harley wheels & the 9 spoke is light in comparison.
I'm thinking of building lightweight (for a Harley) bagger. Have a stash of parts. And the Wagon Wheels with some Lyndall rotors would be the way I'd go, carbon fiber would be out of reach for me.
I think we'll start with the wheel. It goes right on like factory, no muss no fuss. SO EXCITING. Once I got the lower cleaned up the axle slid right in and out no problems. I installed the wagon wheel with the original 2002 spacers. I ended up with perfect rotor alignment on both sides.
From here it was time to reinstall the bars and controls. These bolt on the same with new rubber bushings installed as well. From here, we have a complete front end, ready to test ride.
I lucked out in the fender department. The rushmore fender mounts are slightly wider than the older, and require oblonging the holes on the older fender if you want to retain it. I was running a softail fender with adapters on my bike already, and Harley has produced adapter brackets for the same purpose. They bolt on just like the factory directions. Two no fuss operations in a row. I'm on a roll!!
Or I was..........
My handlebar cover came to me as an accessory upgrade with built in turn signals. The original installer hardwired them to the harness, so they're permanently attached to the harness, and they get in the way any time I have the nacelle off. So I figured I'd throw it up on the bars for storage. Then I realized I could bolt on the lock cylinder and check off another part as installed. So I did that. Then I put the cover over the bars and tried to line it up with the lock cylinder...no go.
I have aftermarket bars that are a lot bigger than original, and the cover did fit on before, but it was basically touching the bar originally. So I decided to pull them back off and test fit the nacelle with the cover and lock cylinder. I thought I would have to notch out the cover a bit to fit with my bars. It didn't seem 100% logical to me, since they fit originally, but I was trying to be optimistic for an easy fix. I was hoping my issues were due to aftermarket parts and I'd just have to do some finessing to get it all to work.
Unfortunately, that has proven to not be the case......
Above is a top view and a side view of the nacelle handlebar cover with the bars removed. The nacelle is loosely bolted on, and the cover is sitting on top of the nacelle where it belongs. It is just under 3/8" taller than it is supposed to be.
The lock cylinder location must be a fixed relationship to the frame, in order to function as designed. The triples must locate it at the appropriate height, and on a parallel axis to the frame for it to perform it's function. The mounting locations for the nacelle are just under 3/8" too high.
To double check myself, I attempted to measure the mounting surface of the lock cylinder to the location of the nacelle mounting hole. On the factory triples, both older and rushmore, that distance is just over 1". On the new triples, that distance is a little less than 3/4". In order to function as a true OEM replacement and retain all factory parts and mounting locations, the mounting bosses for the nacelle need to drop ~3/8". However, we run into other problems...
First, the install height of the forks must place the caps out of the clamping surface. In their current location, the mounting holes place the nacelle in physical contact with the caps, if you let gravity take over.
Howard built his triples using the nacelle mounting points as the starting locations, and referenced everything from there. He began by having a computer spec out the original trees then built his off of the reference points, using the nacelle mount points as "home base".
Today, I spoke with Howard for almost 2 hours reviewing what I had found. Unfortunately he doesn't have any readily accessible CAD drawings. He only has CAM files that he feeds directly into the machines. If he had them, I told him I'd be willing to look at the CAM drawings and calculate out all the dimensions that would have to change, but I'd have trouble with the angular section that is drilled for the stem bolt. Since these don't exist, there isn't really a way to sit down with a visual representation to start figuring out adjustments.
To date, Howard has only installed these on Road Glides. He said he hasn't had any issues bolting them directly onto the bike in place of the original triples and running with it. I don't have any RG experience, but the only thing I could think is that there is no working relationship between the components that bolt to the lock cylinder and the components that bolt to the nacelle mounts on a Road Glide.
This discrepancy is obviously a problem for the RK, because the nacelle has an intimate relationship with the lock cylinder. Howard said he does have 1 set in the hands of someone who owns a batwing bike, but he hasn't had much communication from that fellow.
In addition, the location of the front bolt for the handlebar cover is directly over the stem bolt. At the bolt's finished height, it is less than 1/4" from the surface of the nacelle.
I did notice the head of the stem bolt is very tall, probably close to an inch. This bolt never sees a lot of torque, it only sets the preload on the bearings. I confirmed with Howard that he simply left it tall to allow for a very secure fitting to a socket, it doesn't need to be that tall for any structural reasons. I am going to chuck it in a lathe and cut it down to get the needed clearance to install that bolt, which I don't foresee being an issue.
The other solution is simply to raise the lock cylinder. On the RK it has 2 jobs; mount the fairing and lock the forks. I made a collar to raise the lock cylinder to the appropriate height and this did allow mounting of the handlebar cover satisfactorily. However, to raise it to the appropriate height, the pin no longer engages the locking plate. My next task is going to be to disassemble the lock cylinder to see if a longer pin can be easily produced. If not, I will weld an extension to it so it functions. I'll also fashion a final mounting block that secures the lock cylinder firmly to the triple. Once that is all done I'll supply the dimensions of the block to Howard as well as dimensions of the pin, and I believe his plan is to make a kit for any future RK owners who may purchase his trees.
Once I know the nacelle can be permanently secured, I'll reattach my bars and ensure they do in fact fit under everything. Once that is good, it'll be time for a test ride.
Once El Nino lets up in California..............
Last edited by kingmoochr; 01-18-2016 at 05:57 PM.
I think we'll start with the wheel. It goes right on like factory, no muss no fuss. SO EXCITING. Once I got the lower cleaned up the axle slid right in and out no problems. I installed the wagon wheel with the original 2002 spacers. I ended up with perfect rotor alignment on both sides.
From here it was time to reinstall the bars and controls. These bolt on the same with new rubber bushings installed as well. From here, we have a complete front end, ready to test ride.
I lucked out in the fender department. The rushmore fender mounts are slightly wider than the older, and require oblonging the holes on the older fender if you want to retain it. I was running a softail fender with adapters on my bike already, and Harley has produced adapter brackets for the same purpose. They bolt on just like the factory directions. Two no fuss operations in a row. I'm on a roll!!
Or I was..........
My handlebar cover came to me as an accessory upgrade with built in turn signals. The original installer hardwired them to the harness, so they're permanently attached to the harness, and they get in the way any time I have the nacelle off. So I figured I'd throw it up on the bars for storage. Then I realized I could bolt on the lock cylinder and check off another part as installed. So I did that. Then I put the cover over the bars and tried to line it up with the lock cylinder...no go.
I have aftermarket bars that are a lot bigger than original, and the cover did fit on before, but it was basically touching the bar originally. So I decided to pull them back off and test fit the nacelle with the cover and lock cylinder. I thought I would have to notch out the cover a bit to fit with my bars. It didn't seem 100% logical to me, since they fit originally, but I was trying to be optimistic for an easy fix. I was hoping my issues were due to aftermarket parts and I'd just have to do some finessing to get it all to work.
Unfortunately, that has proven to not be the case....
Above is a top view and a side view of the nacelle handlebar cover with the bars removed. The nacelle is loosely bolted on, and the cover is sitting on top of the nacelle where it belongs. It is just under 3/16" taller than it is supposed to be.
The lock cylinder location must be a fixed relationship to the frame, in order to function as designed. The triples must locate it at the appropriate height, and on a parallel axis to the frame for it to perform it's function. The mounting locations for the nacelle are just under 3/16" too high.
To double check myself, I attempted to measure the mounting surface of the lock cylinder to the location of the nacelle mounting hole. On the factory triples, both older and rushmore, that distance is just over 1". On the new triples, that distance is a little less than 3/4". In order to function as a true OEM replacement and retain all factory parts and mounting locations, the mounting bosses for the nacelle need to drop ~3/16". However, we run into problems.
First, the install height of the ****s must place the caps out of the clamping surface. In their current location, the mounting holes place the nacelle in physical contact with the caps, if you let gravity take over.
This means that in order to move the bosses down, you would have to take 3/16" off of all top surfaces, EXCEPT the lock mounting hole. INCLUDING the fork tubes. The boss on the lower forks has enough meat to simply be repositioned, but in order to work the top triple, they would essentially need to be redesigned. Howard built his triples using the nacelle mounting points as the starting locations, and referenced everything from there. He began by having a computer spec out the original trees then built his off of the reference points, using the nacelle mount points as "home base".
Today, I spoke with Howard for almost 2 hours reviewing what I had found. Unfortunately he doesn't have any readily accessible CAD drawings. He only has CAM files that he feeds directly into the machines. If he had them, I told him I'd be willing to look at the CAM drawings and calculate out all the dimensions that would have to change, but I'd have trouble with the angular section that is drilled for the stem bolt. Since these don't exist, there isn't really a way to sit down with a visual representation to start figuring out adjustments.
To date, Howard has only installed these on Road Glides. He said he hasn't had any issues bolting them directly onto the bike in place of the original triples and running with it. I don't have any RG experience, but the only thing I could think is that there is no working relationship between the components that bolt to the lock cylinder and the components that bolt to the nacelle mounts on a Road Glide.
This discrepancy is obviously a problem for the RK, because the nacelle has an intimate relationship with the lock cylinder. Howard said he does have 1 set in the hands of someone who owns a batwing bike, but he hasn't had much communication from that fellow.
In addition, the location of the front bolt for the handlebar cover is directly over the stem bolt. At the bolt's finished height, it is less than 1/4" from the surface of the nacelle.
I did notice the head of the stem bolt is very tall, probably close to an inch. This bolt never sees a lot of torque, it only sets the preload on the bearings. I confirmed with Howard that he simply left it tall, to allow for a very secure fitting to a socket, it doesn't need to be that tall for any structural reasons. I am going to chuck it in a lathe and cut it down to get the needed clearance to install that bolt, which I don't foresee being an issue.
The short answer summation for this update is, for a Road King, that ~3/16" discrepancy from Howards triples to the OEM triples means these aren't a direct bolt on.
However, I'm far from given up. The other solution is simply to raise the lock cylinder. On the RK it has 2 jobs; mount the fairing and lock the forks. I made a collar to raise the lock cylinder to the appropriate height and this did allow mounting of the handlebar cover satisfactorily. However, to raise it to the appropriate height, the pin no longer engages the locking plate. My next task is going to be to disassemble the lock cylinder to see if a longer pin can be easily produced. If not, I will weld an extension to it so it functions. I'll also fashion a final mounting block that secures the lock cylinder firmly to the triple. Once that is all done I'll supply the dimensions of the block to Howard as well as dimensions of the pin, and I believe his plan is to make a kit for any future RK owners who may purchase his trees.
Once I know the nacelle can be permanently secured, I'll reattach my bars and ensure they do infact fit under everything. Once that is good, it'll be time for a test ride.
Once El Nino lets up in California..............
Looks like the bottom of the new lower tree with the brake line connection is as close or closer to the fender than a 2014-16 with the brake lines mounted on the back of the tree, based solely on the cow bell location.
Looks like they got rid of the neck grease fitting because they eliminated the built in grease catcher of the lower tree on the new bikes.
Last edited by skypilot_one; 01-18-2016 at 07:49 AM.
Looks like the bottom of the new lower tree with the brake line connection is as close or closer to the fender than a 2014-16 with the brake lines mounted on the back of the tree, based solely on the cow bell location.
Looks like they got rid of the neck grease fitting because they eliminated the built in grease catcher of the lower tree on the new bikes.
Not sure what you're referencing. The lower triple on the Rushmore bikes hangs down almost 2 inches lower than the older triples. The lower triple on Howard's set places the bottom of the triple in a similar location to the older triples, not the newer ones.
The cow bell shapes and mounting locations are very different from each other. If you wanted to compare lengths you'd have to use the bearing as a reference, if you wanted to be accurate.
As for the grease fitting, it was never useful, maybe they finally realized the error of their ways :icon_crackup: Or they realized how much of a killing they'd make on "updated service schedules" for the bearings.
Last edited by kingmoochr; 01-18-2016 at 02:11 PM.
I spoke with Howard again and he was in the process of purchasing a RK lock cylinder so he could work on the spacer concurrently. I disassembled the lock and the pin seemed simple to reproduce and Howard said he was going to be producing both items. I may forego making my pin work, and just wait for his solution. We'll see how impatient I get :-P
01-13-2016, 07:31 PM
