2017 Milwaukee-8 Castration of the Harley rider
#11
08-28-2016, 10:01 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
The Knuck people joked about the Pans
The Pan guys lauched at the Shovel Dudes
The Shovel Dudes said the Evo folks were too soft
The Evo folks cal the TC people Twinkies
The TC Twinkies are just passing along the tradition to the M-8 whatever they'll be labelled.
Never had a Knuck or Pan, put I know I probably wouldn't jump on any of the first 3 to go cross country.
The Pan guys lauched at the Shovel Dudes
The Shovel Dudes said the Evo folks were too soft
The Evo folks cal the TC people Twinkies
The TC Twinkies are just passing along the tradition to the M-8 whatever they'll be labelled.
Never had a Knuck or Pan, put I know I probably wouldn't jump on any of the first 3 to go cross country.
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#12
08-28-2016, 10:06 AM
Where there is a will there is away. There is always away. And if horsepower is truly your goal, and you're going to stick with HARLEY, 4 valves can only improve your chances. The aftermarket or the gray market will always find a way to make tuners that can defeat or override the stock stuff...
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Tony P (10-11-2016)
#13
08-28-2016, 10:10 AM
#14
08-28-2016, 10:23 AM
A majority of you out there will probably be satisfied with this years motor move by the MOCO but those like me who find riding a harley stock or stage 1 boring might want to brace yourselves. And the 10% power increase is just a small bone Harley is tossing us to distract from the restrictions coming our way.
All the information circulating out there points to a big time clamping down by the EPA on these street harley's. And the MOCO is complying every step of the way. Here are some points I'll repeat from various threads and facts about the new direction harley is heading.
- SE super tuners are changing to "street tuners" with EPA limiting power (12 million law suit)
increases, 10% max is what I hear.
- Steve Cole tested the motors PSI at 240!! which explains the new
advanced knock sensor and beefed up 1.6kw starter
- the 8 valves is an efficiency move which is fine but it explains
the huge heat produced and therefor explains the NEED for
liquid/oil cooled heads just to manage driver comfort and
prevent holes burning through your jeans (the cooled heads was
a decision NOT for your comfort sake but as a result of necessity
from extreme heat this M8 motor is making.
- crankshaft counterbalancer (another efficiency move, also giving
into the softy's out there that want less shaking and noise)
"refined" is how they market this, I call it castration.
So the direction is clear. Design a motor with a bit more acceleration to keep you all tickled and snip the ***** off the rest of us who demand more. All I read is how awesome the new acceleration is and how smooth it all feels, but at 98 ft/lbs that's not cutting it for me. Remember it's all what you're used to is my point, I'm not putting down anyone who rides with less and likes it, I'm only speaking for myself or others who are power junkies. Like I said above that may be enough for most of you and it can be seen as progress in relation to where street motors have been heading.
I do like the looks of the new motor visually and would like to buy one in the near future BUT ONLY if aftermarket builders can get more outta the heads, cams non EPA compliant, and if aftermarket tuning companies like direct link and others can operate without limits. I am concerned that eventually the EPA will require in all states a mandatory emissions test and forcing a rider to have an EPA tuned map and a performance map on hand, one to comply and one to ride.
All the information circulating out there points to a big time clamping down by the EPA on these street harley's. And the MOCO is complying every step of the way. Here are some points I'll repeat from various threads and facts about the new direction harley is heading.
- SE super tuners are changing to "street tuners" with EPA limiting power (12 million law suit)
increases, 10% max is what I hear.
- Steve Cole tested the motors PSI at 240!! which explains the new
advanced knock sensor and beefed up 1.6kw starter
- the 8 valves is an efficiency move which is fine but it explains
the huge heat produced and therefor explains the NEED for
liquid/oil cooled heads just to manage driver comfort and
prevent holes burning through your jeans (the cooled heads was
a decision NOT for your comfort sake but as a result of necessity
from extreme heat this M8 motor is making.
- crankshaft counterbalancer (another efficiency move, also giving
into the softy's out there that want less shaking and noise)
"refined" is how they market this, I call it castration.
So the direction is clear. Design a motor with a bit more acceleration to keep you all tickled and snip the ***** off the rest of us who demand more. All I read is how awesome the new acceleration is and how smooth it all feels, but at 98 ft/lbs that's not cutting it for me. Remember it's all what you're used to is my point, I'm not putting down anyone who rides with less and likes it, I'm only speaking for myself or others who are power junkies. Like I said above that may be enough for most of you and it can be seen as progress in relation to where street motors have been heading.
I do like the looks of the new motor visually and would like to buy one in the near future BUT ONLY if aftermarket builders can get more outta the heads, cams non EPA compliant, and if aftermarket tuning companies like direct link and others can operate without limits. I am concerned that eventually the EPA will require in all states a mandatory emissions test and forcing a rider to have an EPA tuned map and a performance map on hand, one to comply and one to ride.
While you bring up very valid points, you seem to forget that its a touring bike. 60% of the buyers of touring bikes will be perfectly happy the the current power output. Not everyone is in the market to build a 120 HP touring bike. Its nothing new that EPA mandates are driving the engineering aspects. Harley has done a great job at keeping with Harley tradion while still being able to meet stringent epa standards. Personally I felt very little heat on the water cooled 2017 road glide ultra that I test drove yesterday. It was just inevitable that some type of liquid cooling was required to make more power and still keep with EPA standards. I think we are beating a dead horse at this point.
#16
08-28-2016, 10:28 AM
Fuel Moto , Dynojet and others will have a work around before you know it for tuners.
They will be labeled Race only as it really is now. After market exhaust and engine build parts will flow to the market before you know it.
Heck how long before you can get a 114 upgrade from HD for the 107.
Only thing is it is likely to cost you
They will be labeled Race only as it really is now. After market exhaust and engine build parts will flow to the market before you know it.
Heck how long before you can get a 114 upgrade from HD for the 107.
Only thing is it is likely to cost you
I can bet my next paycheck that Vance and Hines has been working for months developing exhausts for this bike. RC Components posted on facebook yesterday that they are already working on 4.5 inch slip-ons.
#17
08-28-2016, 10:30 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
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Tony P (10-11-2016)
#18
08-28-2016, 10:43 AM
Beary
#19
08-28-2016, 10:46 AM
I don't get it. I've been riding since 1973. My first Harley was a 1976 Sportster. I figured out pretty quickly that if I wanted to go fast I wasn't going to do it on a Harley. I've still owned at least one of them over all these years, and cycled through all the motors that were offered. My current Road King will cruise all day at 85 MPH and it will get into triple digits (barely) if you give it enough time. But, that's not what I have a Harley for. I have it for when me and the wife want to ride or go cross country. Now that I have the stock exhaust gone it runs cool enough. Still hot, but cool enough.
When I do want to go fast, I jump on my VFR. And over the years I've had plenty of those kinds of bikes as well.
I'm in it for the riding and don't really give a rats *** about what the badge is on it, nor do I want to spend money to get it to work after buying it.
I saw the new HD yesterday at the dealership. I didn't ride it on purpose. Primarily because my RK was bought new this year, but also because I'm happy with it the way it is. I do, however, like the new bike and would probably buy one if my current battleship wasn't new.
To each his own, but I think there's too much noise being made about the fact the HD has to comply with EPA rules (just like everyone else does!!) and are finally having to actually do it to stay in business. And that's the key word, "business". If you can't make money because you're forever being fined by the government, or they threaten to shut you down completely, what's the point?
When I do want to go fast, I jump on my VFR. And over the years I've had plenty of those kinds of bikes as well.
I'm in it for the riding and don't really give a rats *** about what the badge is on it, nor do I want to spend money to get it to work after buying it.
I saw the new HD yesterday at the dealership. I didn't ride it on purpose. Primarily because my RK was bought new this year, but also because I'm happy with it the way it is. I do, however, like the new bike and would probably buy one if my current battleship wasn't new.
To each his own, but I think there's too much noise being made about the fact the HD has to comply with EPA rules (just like everyone else does!!) and are finally having to actually do it to stay in business. And that's the key word, "business". If you can't make money because you're forever being fined by the government, or they threaten to shut you down completely, what's the point?
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Tony P (10-11-2016)
#20
08-28-2016, 11:00 AM
Castrate: Psychology. to render impotent,..by psychological means, especially by threatening a person's masculinity .
...... dave, my masculinity is not gonna be threatened by riding a smooth, fast, (hopefully) dependable, hundreds-of-miles-at-a-stretch touring rig to waaay beyond the horizon
....... for 'not putting down anyone', your comments certainly cast disrespect on a whole bunch'a good riders
....... without limits ? well buddy, till you can ride your heavily modified, blindingly fast in the 1/4 steed into DC, up the stairs @ EPA and actually affect a change in the compliance regulation, ....... you'd best plan on being illegal or not riding one'a them shiney new M8s.
... jus sayin'
...... dave, my masculinity is not gonna be threatened by riding a smooth, fast, (hopefully) dependable, hundreds-of-miles-at-a-stretch touring rig to waaay beyond the horizon
... jus sayin'