09 TBW/Clutch interaction
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Tourer
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 376
Likes: 27
From: Weeki Wachee, Florida
09 TBW/Clutch interaction
I've had my 09 Ultra for over a month now, and still haven't gotten completely used to the "feel" of the TBW in relation to clutch action. I need to "rev" up the RPMs more with the TBW versus a cabled throttle, or I tend to lug the engine. Am I the only one who is having a steep learning curve getting completely in synch with the TBW? Not sure why Harley went to it...and I don't really have anything against it...but it does have a different feel, and has a flat spot at the lower rpm range that will require longer repetition for the "muscle memory" to kick in. So...am I the only one experiencing this? If yes, I'll sign up for my self-esteem classes next week.
Stellar HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 2,107
Likes: 283
From: California, Md now Savannah, Ga
I've had my 09 Ultra for over a month now, and still haven't gotten completely used to the "feel" of the TBW in relation to clutch action. I need to "rev" up the RPMs more with the TBW versus a cabled throttle, or I tend to lug the engine. Am I the only one who is having a steep learning curve getting completely in synch with the TBW?
For what its worth it can be adjusted with the new SERT.
There is a lag built into the system supposedly to prevent the engine bogging down.
TWIST GRIP POSITION %
------- 0 -- 3 -- 20 -- 25--- 30 -- 40 -- 55 -- 70 -- 100
RPM
700 -- 0.0- 1.2- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0
750 -- 0.0- 1.2- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0
1000 - 0.0- 1.2- 18.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0
1250 - 0.0- 1.3- 18.5- 23.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5
1500 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 39.0- 39.0- 39.0
1750 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 54.0- 54.0
2000 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 69.0- 69.0
3000 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 69.0- 99.0
The figures in the columns denote throttle plate %
So at 1000 RPM and 30% trottle, the throttle plate is only open 23%
Hope that makes sense
There is a lag built into the system supposedly to prevent the engine bogging down.
TWIST GRIP POSITION %
------- 0 -- 3 -- 20 -- 25--- 30 -- 40 -- 55 -- 70 -- 100
RPM
700 -- 0.0- 1.2- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0- 12.0
750 -- 0.0- 1.2- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0- 17.0
1000 - 0.0- 1.2- 18.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0- 23.0
1250 - 0.0- 1.3- 18.5- 23.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5- 28.5
1500 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 39.0- 39.0- 39.0
1750 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 54.0- 54.0
2000 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 69.0- 69.0
3000 - 0.0- 1.5- 19.0- 24.0- 29.0- 39.0- 54.0- 69.0- 99.0
The figures in the columns denote throttle plate %
So at 1000 RPM and 30% trottle, the throttle plate is only open 23%
Hope that makes sense
Last edited by WildBill2566; Oct 23, 2008 at 03:07 AM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,532
Likes: 7
From: Rochester N.Y.
Sign me up for that class also.
I had a heck of a time with the new feel with TBW , especially taking off from a stoplight.
Nearly embarrassed myself a few times too.
Seems like you have to plan the throttle up/clutch release differently than than my previous bike.
Seems like my last bike (06 FLHT carb) was more responsive from a dead stop than the new bike.
Took me about 3-400 miles to actually get the feel down in my mind.
Now I don't notice it much at all.
I thought it was just me , I guess not...........
Mick
I had a heck of a time with the new feel with TBW , especially taking off from a stoplight.
Nearly embarrassed myself a few times too.
Seems like you have to plan the throttle up/clutch release differently than than my previous bike.
Seems like my last bike (06 FLHT carb) was more responsive from a dead stop than the new bike.
Took me about 3-400 miles to actually get the feel down in my mind.
Now I don't notice it much at all.
I thought it was just me , I guess not...........
Mick
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,424
Likes: 0
From: Hoboken, New Jersey
There is no question that there is what seems to be a built in lag of some sort for some reason that only the MOCO knows. I sometimes have to bring the RPM's up higher that what I would call normal to get off from a dead stop. Riding 2 up exacerbates the problem (if you want to call it a problem), and if you happen to be on a up grade riding 2 up it gets even worse. The funny thing is though that this symptom seems to come and go. Now it could be just me, but it feels like the RPM needed to pull away from a dead stop at a intersection I cross daily changes from time to time. I realize there are many factors that come into play with the way the ECU responds to throttle commands, but in my simple mind it should seem a bit more seamless.
Now its good to know that I can take the bike to the dealer and have them try to dial out some of the "throttle lag" I am feeling via the pro SERT I have on my 08 FLHX, but I refuse to pay for such a thing. My bike is still covered under the HD new bike warranty, and in my eyes this is a problem.....even though VERY SLIGHT....it is a problem never the less.....and now it seems that its a problem with a relatively easy fix. I will have to inquire about this with the SM at my local dealer.
Now its good to know that I can take the bike to the dealer and have them try to dial out some of the "throttle lag" I am feeling via the pro SERT I have on my 08 FLHX, but I refuse to pay for such a thing. My bike is still covered under the HD new bike warranty, and in my eyes this is a problem.....even though VERY SLIGHT....it is a problem never the less.....and now it seems that its a problem with a relatively easy fix. I will have to inquire about this with the SM at my local dealer.
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Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,446
Likes: 5
From: Chicago, IL.
Mick, and Bizz I couldn't agree with you guys more. When I first bought mine I killed it multiple times leaving from the stoplight. When inquired about this issue I got "oh thats TBW man its great no more throttle cables now you get that clean look on your handlebars." It sucked I hated it and I'm glad its gone. If it was so great HD would have it on all the bikes by now.
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,351
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From: Illinois
I guess my SERT took that lag out before I ever rode the bike. This is my tenth bike, first TBW, and I can't tell any difference in throttle response from any bike I have ever ridden.
Dennis
Dennis
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 69
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Well, for my part, I have a complete different experience. Compare to my 07UC I had, the TBW on my 09UC responds as quickly as did my 07. As soon as I turn the throttle, off it goes. Also, compare to my 07, I don't have to give more rpm to shift. In the contrary. with the 07, I had to go up between 2600 and 2900 rpm to shift without lugging the engine. Now, when I shift, I'm usually between 2000 and 2200 rpm and the engine doesn't lug.