A "Stage 1" is usually defined as an EFI controller or HD download, AC, and mufflers. In this state the stock EFI setup will work fine as long as you stay in closed-loop mode (<50% TP and <3K RPM), but the problem surfaces when you enter open-loop mode (e.g. WOT). The ECM will not compensate for the freer-flowing AC in that case and you will be running much worse than optimum in those areas.

Most modern cars use wide-band O2 sensors that keep closed-loop operation in all TP and RPM ranges, but this isn't the case on modern HD's that run narrow-band O2 sensors. These are good only in the ranges mentioned above and can only regulate AFR's between about 14.2-15.0:1.

The system will work identical to stock as long as you're in closed-loop mode but once you add the AC option with or without aftermarket mufflers AFR's will be leaner than even HD recommends. The bike will not run optimally and may exceed the heat and AFR limitations the engine was designed around. I personally wouldn't do it, but everyone must make decisions.

 

Late-model HD's (at least as far back as '07) have ion-discharge knock-sensors installed. This isn't a hardware item but a function of the ECM and certain signals it obtains from the spark plugs. You can read more about it here.

I can hear incipient knock on my bike very briefly but it goes away quickly and is never sustained. When sensed the ECM backs off on ignition advance until it goes away, then resets rapidly in a real-time mode.

 

As I've said numerous times on this forum, the Fuel Moto Power Package (Dyno-Tuned Jackpot mufflers, PCV, and AC) is IMO the best, most cost-effective Stage 1 kit on the market. It is very flexibile and can grow with you and the bike if you feel the need for further performance enhancements.

 

I just ordered my PC V from Fuel Moto today. Great guys to deal with.

 

I have an '07 Electra Glide Standard. At about 700 miles, I had the SE Air Filter & SE Slip-ons installed, along with the Stage 1 upgrade. Bike seemed to run better...maybe a little cooler on the right thigh. Cost was bout $400 for the slip-ons, $150 for the air filter, and $100 for the stage 1 download. I was new to the Harley world, and didnt know about the Fuel Moto PC V, etc.

I'd been money ahead with this system. I've since installed the PC V...and it made a world of difference in performance. Although Im not in 'stop-n-go' traffic that often, rear cylinder heat is almost non-existent to what it was. Jamie / Keith @ Fuel Moto are great to deal with...know their business...and will answer any questions ya have...even follow-up on the system if need be.

As of now Im satisfied with my SE Slip-ons...but may consider the Jackpot or V&H Monster Ovals mufflers in time....depending on if / when I do a 'tru-dual' conversion. I might even go with the Auto-Tune at that time.

There are numerous members on this board who have great knowledge on these systems. Keep searching....dont be afraid to ask them questions.

Good Luck with your choices.

Billy G

PS....if ya do go with PC V...you'll notice fuel mileage dropping off somewhat. Keep this in mind, and I HAVE read it (2nd person) here on the forum..."If you're worried about the mileage going down, wait 2 or 3 tanks before you call Jamie....that way the 'grin' will be off your face...and you'll have quit 'twistin' the throttle as much."

 

Unfortunately, that's only a "half baked" solution to a real problem. The "electronic interference" of a spark is not a true indicator of a knock condition. Just look at the guy that said he could make his bike knock "on command" when it's warm. A true knock sensor detects sounds of certain frequencies, which is why they are mounted near the cylinders themselves in your car.

The REAL problem is that manufacturers are required by the EPA to design their motors to be on the edge of a failure condition in order to get them to conform to the "proper standards" that the EPA has set forth. You can't tell me that there's not some way to allow the engines to operate in a less lean condition and still have clean emissions. If that were the case, how would we be able to have all of these "clean burning coal" power plants?

 

Ftanner...We're off track here! 09 UltraFine wanted to know his best options! IClick is our local guru along with a few others and We've all known for awhile about Harley's Narrow band issues and that after 50% I believe the AFR get skewed do to improvements we make! This is where the PV-C and other units come into play! They work to improve performance as well and cool the engine.

I have a PC-V on Mine and it's been flawless!

As far as you "clean burning coal"...no such thing. They just follow a government mandating maximum emissions standard...and there is nothing clean about that!

Ride Safe, Mike


So...

 

I agree. That was the point. The EPA and their idiotic rules about what to do to make things "environmentally clean"...

 

I bought a used 2001 Ultra last year with 11,000 hard and abusive miles on it. With concern for the upgrade cam drive from the MOCO and in that process, I was advised that the cams were already showing wear at 16,000 miles. So I upgraded to some cams (SE 204 cam, minimum,no head work needed) with the stage 1 and remapping. Whoaa, take off and passing speed are very noticeable. If I had bought the bike new I am all about stock at this point and would do nothing to it performance wise.

 

For the record, and back on topic, I have the FuelMoto programmed Power Commander V, Supertrapp SE exhaust, and SE intake PowerPak and love it.

The bike feels the way that it should have felt from HD.