Difference in power 96 versus 103
#21
dealer installed my 103 kit and dynoed the bike after break in for $1440. Did not include PCIII, Stage I breather, Rush mufflers, SE Compensator, or Fulsac true duels at that price. Everything but the SE compesator was already on the bike before the 103 kit was installed. SE compensator was added several months later after trying many things to stop the spitting back and extreme grinding of the starter when trying to start the engine. Many people with a 103ci and SE255 cams have this problem or some form of hard starting due to the cam timing @startup with the SE255 cams. Save yourself the headache and have the SE compensator installed during the engine build, it's worth the extra money spent (I'm guessing around $350-$400 installed) PACO
#22
103?
The local EAGLE RIDER dealer told me he installed the 103 kit on his 2007 Ultra and really couldn't tell much difference - especially not enough for the $$$. I trust the Redmond, Oregon Eagle Riders advice since he buys new bikes, rents them out totally stock. He uses Harley oil products and sells the bikes at around 40,000 miles. Never had and problems with dyno oil, overheating or anything else. He told me 'buy it and ride it" KISS
#23
Not to cause a flame fest, but I feel the upgrades from Harley and its dealers are a major waste of money. The guys I know that break the 100 h.p. barrier always have their work done by an independent engine builder. This past weekend I watched 3 bikes gets dyno'd at a motorcycle rally. Stock 88" with Rineharts, a.c. and download had 79 h.p. SE Fat Boy with 103" and some after market slash down pipes only had 85 h.p. Third bike was a v-twin Yamaha with some really loud straight pipes that put out 109 h.p.!! (nice job Harley)
So, going back to the point of the thread, IMHO no matter what engine comes on your bike straight from Harley, you shouldn't spend more than is required for an air cleaner, fuel management and pipes you like.
So, going back to the point of the thread, IMHO no matter what engine comes on your bike straight from Harley, you shouldn't spend more than is required for an air cleaner, fuel management and pipes you like.
#24
My stock 96ci Ultra was much better than my stock 88ci Fatboy until I had the Fatboy reamed out to a 95ci 100hp/torque engine. After selling the 'Boy in favor of the Ultra comfort, I upgraded the 96ci to a 103ci with 255 cams, flat tops, 2" Rush mufflers, Fulsac true duels, a PCIII, and SE compensator, about $3000 worth all together. It dynos at 84hp and 105 ft lbs of torque now. Not a sceamer like the Fatboy, but great trailer pulling, two up riding torque in 6th gear and I can even pull away from 45mph in 6th without a problem now. The 96 would not do this. Only thing is that above 60mph I drop from 40mpg to 30-32mpg, depending on how fast I ride and how much I'm towing. The MPG really suffered, I didn't like that part, but if you dance, you pay....after de-bugging the entire build (starting problems cured by the SE compensator, so if you do the build, go on and do the SE compensator and save your self a lot of trouble. forget the hi-torque starter, forget the compression releases, just get the SE compensator installed and all is well....), I wouldn't swap it now for a boat load of 96ci'ers. I LIKE my 103....
Also, Jamie at Fuel Moto told me that based on his duno-tuning experience the 103 kit alone (no cams) only provide a few HP/TQ gain over the TC96, so to me the real bang-for-the-buck upgrade is a cam change. I always suggest that people install the SE255's first, then upgrade further if they aren't happy with those results.
#25
#26
I rode the new Ultra limited and was dissapointed. I felt a tad more torque while accellerating at lower speeds. On the highway and roll=on passing in high gear it was not the equal of my 08 Ultra with nothing more than Rush slipons and 18K miles on my bike. The Ultra limited has some other nice features but the 103 isn't reason enough to buy. I have ridden the 110 in and do like that motor. BTW it has SE 255 cams or so I'm told. I will probably keep my current ride and upgrade the exhaust intake and go with a V&H fuel pak and spend the money on something else.
#27
#28
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DAMN - scratch all this tripe. I failed to note you were asking about an '09 and my supposedly "great tip" won't even work on yours.
Quite OT (sorry OP) but I went the simple old-school "gearing" way myself - a basically stock '07 96 inch RK, stage 1 w/V&H ovals and stock head-pipes - no true engine mods at all.
I took advantage of the "6th gear is too over-geared" situation and installed an EVO 30T crank sprocket/primary chain. No comp now but don't miss it either... well... a little primary "rattle" at light throttle and low speed but I think that's because the EVO chain is a bit sloppier side-to-side that stock HD (will replace it one of these days to make sure but...). Did it last year and no problems whatsoever with somewhere around another 10-12 K-miles on it I guess.
The plus to actual riding feel on take-off is very noticeable (and is to my friends too ), the HWY cruise feel in 6th is GREATLY improved (my comfortable "cruise" is 70-75 or so), and some stranger was riding it (not me of course) and said indicated top-end was still over 105/110 or thereabouts. I don't do serious mileage type stuff but haven't noticed anything to speak of in regards to that.
In other words, very pleased and it was cheap too. Last tire change I went to Elite 3's (slightly less overall diameter) which also tweaked the gearing a tiny bit more but that smidgen more was not even noticeable from the "ride feel" perspective. You absolutely positively WILL loose the 6th gear indicator (brain box controlled and gets fooled by RPM versus MPH change) but for me anyway, that was a very small price to pay.
ETA:
Link to EVO catalog
Link to a good thread (pro/con) here on HD Forums
ETA2:
Quite OT (sorry OP) but I went the simple old-school "gearing" way myself - a basically stock '07 96 inch RK, stage 1 w/V&H ovals and stock head-pipes - no true engine mods at all.
I took advantage of the "6th gear is too over-geared" situation and installed an EVO 30T crank sprocket/primary chain. No comp now but don't miss it either... well... a little primary "rattle" at light throttle and low speed but I think that's because the EVO chain is a bit sloppier side-to-side that stock HD (will replace it one of these days to make sure but...). Did it last year and no problems whatsoever with somewhere around another 10-12 K-miles on it I guess.
The plus to actual riding feel on take-off is very noticeable (and is to my friends too ), the HWY cruise feel in 6th is GREATLY improved (my comfortable "cruise" is 70-75 or so), and some stranger was riding it (not me of course) and said indicated top-end was still over 105/110 or thereabouts. I don't do serious mileage type stuff but haven't noticed anything to speak of in regards to that.
In other words, very pleased and it was cheap too. Last tire change I went to Elite 3's (slightly less overall diameter) which also tweaked the gearing a tiny bit more but that smidgen more was not even noticeable from the "ride feel" perspective. You absolutely positively WILL loose the 6th gear indicator (brain box controlled and gets fooled by RPM versus MPH change) but for me anyway, that was a very small price to pay.
ETA:
Link to EVO catalog
Link to a good thread (pro/con) here on HD Forums
ETA2:
Last edited by RangeRat; 09-10-2009 at 03:37 AM.
#29
Not to cause a flame fest, but I feel the upgrades from Harley and its dealers are a major waste of money. The guys I know that break the 100 h.p. barrier always have their work done by an independent engine builder. This past weekend I watched 3 bikes gets dyno'd at a motorcycle rally. Stock 88" with Rineharts, a.c. and download had 79 h.p. SE Fat Boy with 103" and some after market slash down pipes only had 85 h.p. Third bike was a v-twin Yamaha with some really loud straight pipes that put out 109 h.p.!! (nice job Harley)
So, going back to the point of the thread, IMHO no matter what engine comes on your bike straight from Harley, you shouldn't spend more than is required for an air cleaner, fuel management and pipes you like.
So, going back to the point of the thread, IMHO no matter what engine comes on your bike straight from Harley, you shouldn't spend more than is required for an air cleaner, fuel management and pipes you like.
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