SE 255 Cams ONLY
#21
01-25-2011, 03:10 PM
Road Warrior
I know there's no replacement for displacement. I know a Stage One along with cams is better. I know there are a number a fuel management add-ons (Power Commander, SERT, etc).
However, forget about all that for a moment.
I am interested in increasing torque so that I can get up to speed with greater ease as well as being able to pass with greater ease (whether alone or with a Passenger).
Here's my question:
On a 2009, would adding only SE 255 Cams and leaving the stock air kit and stock pipes, give me an appreciable increase in torque?
Would I need a fuel management system?
However, forget about all that for a moment.
I am interested in increasing torque so that I can get up to speed with greater ease as well as being able to pass with greater ease (whether alone or with a Passenger).
Here's my question:
On a 2009, would adding only SE 255 Cams and leaving the stock air kit and stock pipes, give me an appreciable increase in torque?
Would I need a fuel management system?
#22
01-25-2011, 03:20 PM
#23
01-25-2011, 04:48 PM
#24
01-25-2011, 04:56 PM
They won't work in a TC88 touring bike. This is the touring forum.
Do you have any experience with 255's in a TC88? I haven't but would like to know your impressions, as you obviously have ridden a bike with this setup.
In what way? What is your definition of "better"? Bear with me here, as I just want to hear your reasoning, as you must have some experience with all these configurations.
Will you like the way the work; not so much.
SE203 or SE204 will work much better. Andrews TW 26 will work even better.
Last edited by iclick; 01-25-2011 at 05:19 PM.
#25
01-25-2011, 05:03 PM
This is a concept that we see occasionally on this forum and others, and perhaps the problem is defining "fall flat." I also don't ever recall the owner of a bike with 255's saying they "fall flat" or "run out of steam" above xxxx RPM. I have them in my TC96 and the impression I get riding my bike is anything but the description above. They are not cams that will increase peak-HP as much as most other aftermarket cam sets, but are rather designed to improve low-end and midrange torque, which they do very well in engines with stock-to-moderate compression. Cujo is right that they peak at around 5k and "flatten out" thereafter, but "fall flat" is a misnomer, IMO. For example if you are peaking at 85hp at 5k RPM and produce 82hp at 6k RPM, you are still pulling rather well.
They are especially good bolt-in cams for otherwise stock engines with Stage 1 mods in heavy touring bikes. If properly tuned and allowed to breathe (free-flowing intake and exhaust), they will provide a very flat TQ curve and do pull all the way out to the redline. The peak-HP improvement may be along the lines of 4HP, while TQ should increase by 10 in it's peak over an otherwise-equal Stage 1 bike with stock cams. Almost any other cam set you can name will produce more peak-HP, but some riders don't hand-out above 4000rpm often and would prefer the power below that point. For me routinely going above 4000rpm is unnecessary since I have all the power I need below that point. YMMV. They can also be commonly seen on Ebay as low-mileage CVO pulls for around $150, so IMO the bang-for-the-buck factor is high for these cams, especially if you do the work yourself.
The 204's are a good option too, IMO, but compared to 255's and given stock 9.2 compression they will not produce quite the oomph in the low-end and will put it higher in the band. It's all in what you want and where you want the power. I do feel that ideally 204's need a bit more compression than the 9.2:1 most of us start out with, but I'm told 9.5-10.0, or thereabouts, is a good range for them. The 255's do well at 9.2 on up to 10.0, but toward the higher part of that range (specifically 10.0) they may have problems with hot-starting due to the very high CCP they produce. Based on what I read in the forums some do but most don't.
They are especially good bolt-in cams for otherwise stock engines with Stage 1 mods in heavy touring bikes. If properly tuned and allowed to breathe (free-flowing intake and exhaust), they will provide a very flat TQ curve and do pull all the way out to the redline. The peak-HP improvement may be along the lines of 4HP, while TQ should increase by 10 in it's peak over an otherwise-equal Stage 1 bike with stock cams. Almost any other cam set you can name will produce more peak-HP, but some riders don't hand-out above 4000rpm often and would prefer the power below that point. For me routinely going above 4000rpm is unnecessary since I have all the power I need below that point. YMMV. They can also be commonly seen on Ebay as low-mileage CVO pulls for around $150, so IMO the bang-for-the-buck factor is high for these cams, especially if you do the work yourself.
The 204's are a good option too, IMO, but compared to 255's and given stock 9.2 compression they will not produce quite the oomph in the low-end and will put it higher in the band. It's all in what you want and where you want the power. I do feel that ideally 204's need a bit more compression than the 9.2:1 most of us start out with, but I'm told 9.5-10.0, or thereabouts, is a good range for them. The 255's do well at 9.2 on up to 10.0, but toward the higher part of that range (specifically 10.0) they may have problems with hot-starting due to the very high CCP they produce. Based on what I read in the forums some do but most don't.
#26
01-25-2011, 06:37 PM
Road Master
Thanks for the help, I am going to try em out and see how they work for me. I have been looking through the forum for tips and such. I have all the tools and time I need to do the job just a few things I am concerned about is the bearing installation(don't want to install them too far into the case or not far enough) and the crank and cam pulley alignment. I have not been inside this motor yet and wondering if you found it difficult to get the pulleys aligned using the shims HD offers or did you even have to bother with shims.
Aligning the gears is very easy. Take a steel ruler and place it on edge across the two gears and see if there is a gap (a flashlight helps). If there is measure the gap with a feeler gage to find what size shim you need. Let's say your shim is a .130 and the gap is .008 on the rear cam then a .140 shim will get you where you need to be, or if the gap is on the front cam then a .120 is what you need.
#27
01-25-2011, 10:16 PM
Thanks for the help, I am going to try em out and see how they work for me. I have been looking through the forum for tips and such. I have all the tools and time I need to do the job just a few things I am concerned about is the bearing installation(don't want to install them too far into the case or not far enough) and the crank and cam pulley alignment. I have not been inside this motor yet and wondering if you found it difficult to get the pulleys aligned using the shims HD offers or did you even have to bother with shims.
Be sure to read these threads (here and here) on changing cams, as they'll give some great tips. Then read the appropriate sections of the manual and become thoroughly familiar with each step. After that and the right tools and parts and you're ready to start.
I didn't buy any shims since I was assured the stock shim (.10") is correct most of the time, which it was in my case. The HD shop is two miles from my house and getting the right shim in the middle of the job wasn't a problem since they're open seven days per week and keep all shims in stock. If you don't have close access to a dealer I would by the kit containing all shims, which is much cheaper than buying all shims individually, then ask them if you can get a refund if you return it unopened.
Most will agree to that, I'm sure.
#29
09-26-2012, 12:40 AM
Road Captain
This may be completely out of left feild but i recently dropped the SE255 in my FXDWG (96") I had sideshots and a PM AC and tuned with TTS, when i picked it up i freaked no two ways about it I thought the shop had stuffed the install, thing was a pig. now here is the gem i want to pass on, some of this was down to the tune (and I also moved my baffles further down the pipe(closer to the end)QQ BCT baffles), but the real issue for me was i was used to changing up and pulling on the throttle, the SE255 just dosent run like that there is a flat spot down low (hope to tune this out this weekend, hence reading SE255 posts), the cam is a pretty different beast than the stock one with regrad to how and where it likes to run.
once it gets up to about 3k in the rev range it runs hard all the way up (150kph-160kph in 3rd) the big change for me was the shift in the curve once i understood this i started seeing the psoitives of this cam and it pull nice and smooth all the way up to the rev limiter I know people have posted it drops off but I havent noticed that.
now my ride is not a tourer so that may change things but I would recomend these as a upgrade night and day to my stock ones (once I learnt where to look for the power in the curve)
I will hopefully getting a few tuning runs in tonight.
The point is it was me that had to learn the cam before i saw it for what it was, tough lesson for me but now i know it I am happy as a pig in the proverbial.
once it gets up to about 3k in the rev range it runs hard all the way up (150kph-160kph in 3rd) the big change for me was the shift in the curve once i understood this i started seeing the psoitives of this cam and it pull nice and smooth all the way up to the rev limiter I know people have posted it drops off but I havent noticed that.
now my ride is not a tourer so that may change things but I would recomend these as a upgrade night and day to my stock ones (once I learnt where to look for the power in the curve)
I will hopefully getting a few tuning runs in tonight.
The point is it was me that had to learn the cam before i saw it for what it was, tough lesson for me but now i know it I am happy as a pig in the proverbial.
Last edited by ==ShaDoW==; 09-26-2012 at 12:42 AM.
