Another will not start issue this weekend
Thread Starter
|
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
Originally Posted by cuda67bnl
Have you tried opening the throttle some when it does this?
Former Sponsor
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 19,364
Likes: 40
From: Los Angeles, CA
Are the battery cables nice and tight? That is always the first thing to check. The "a" motors shake so much that quite often battery cables will loosen from riding. Start there and let us know what happens.
Drew
Drew
Road Master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 1,221
Likes: 4
From: Annemasse (border of Geneva-Switzerland) facing Mt-Blanc.
You have battery, it cranks, there are sparks, you hear a 'big whoosh' and you can smell fuel vapors: I wood look for a timing error / intermittent sensor problem / bad sensor contact.
If I remember correctly, we have ignition after compression and during exhaust. The second ignition is 'for free' because only one ignition sensor is used for sake of simplicity. The engine could never run in case of a permanent timing error, so it should really be a bad contact between the ECU and timing sensor (or whatever you call it).
-You mention backfiring: this happens when ignition occurs before TDC = much too early
-You mention smell of fuel from the intake (air filter?): this happens when injection occurs against a closed inlet valve = much too early
The timing sensor uses a mechanically fixed index / position on the crankshaft; this cannot move nor alter the timing in any way. I'm sure you'll soon put your finger where it hurts
Road Master
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 3
From: Stamford, CT
This isn't a solution but if your cellphone has video capability record your starting events so you have something to show the dealer. Maybe they will spend a bit more time investigating the potential causes.
Thread Starter
|
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
Good day.
I'm no mechanic and am not writing to suggest mechanical solutions to your problem but there are some questions that should be asked.
If this is a recurring problem documented by the dealership; "Why will it cost you money to have the problem fixed?"
If the dealership is not prepared to fix the starting problem;"What is the HD headquarters response?"
When this problem happens does it always take several attempts BEFORE it starts? If so, "Have you called your local dealership after the first instance and have them come pick-up the bike before making any other attempts?" It might be one way to keep the problem at the forefront.
Just my thoughts....
Ride(?) In Peace
I'm no mechanic and am not writing to suggest mechanical solutions to your problem but there are some questions that should be asked.
If this is a recurring problem documented by the dealership; "Why will it cost you money to have the problem fixed?"
If the dealership is not prepared to fix the starting problem;"What is the HD headquarters response?"
When this problem happens does it always take several attempts BEFORE it starts? If so, "Have you called your local dealership after the first instance and have them come pick-up the bike before making any other attempts?" It might be one way to keep the problem at the forefront.
Just my thoughts....
Ride(?) In Peace
It has only failed to start after the first time maybe twice. Duh! now I’m confusing myself.
I have called the dealer and they told me to bring it in. The first time they tried, it started the first time, every time. Kind a make you feel like an *** when you get it there and there's no problem.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 503
Likes: 1
From: Missouri
It does crank over normally and will not fire.
Thanks for the suggestion but I can't afford an extended warranty. I'm a disabled veteran on a very limited income. I guess I bought into something I should never have considered. Besides, what good would an extended warranty do if they can't find a problem that existed before the warranty expired?
Thanks for the suggestion but I can't afford an extended warranty. I'm a disabled veteran on a very limited income. I guess I bought into something I should never have considered. Besides, what good would an extended warranty do if they can't find a problem that existed before the warranty expired?
Thread Starter
|
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
Yeap, that's usually the first thing I check. I am very particular about keeping the maintenance up. I also keep the battery on a Battery tender and have as recently as last week, had the battery loaded tested.
Thread Starter
|
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
Hi,
You have battery, it cranks, there are sparks, you hear a 'big whoosh' and you can smell fuel vapors: I wood look for a timing error / intermittent sensor problem / bad sensor contact.
If I remember correctly, we have ignition after compression and during exhaust. The second ignition is 'for free' because only one ignition sensor is used for sake of simplicity. The engine could never run in case of a permanent timing error, so it should really be a bad contact between the ECU and timing sensor (or whatever you call it).
-You mention backfiring: this happens when ignition occurs before TDC = much too early
-You mention smell of fuel from the intake (air filter?): this happens when injection occurs against a closed inlet valve = much too early
The timing sensor uses a mechanically fixed index / position on the crankshaft; this cannot move nor alter the timing in any way. I'm sure you'll soon put your finger where it hurts
You have battery, it cranks, there are sparks, you hear a 'big whoosh' and you can smell fuel vapors: I wood look for a timing error / intermittent sensor problem / bad sensor contact.
If I remember correctly, we have ignition after compression and during exhaust. The second ignition is 'for free' because only one ignition sensor is used for sake of simplicity. The engine could never run in case of a permanent timing error, so it should really be a bad contact between the ECU and timing sensor (or whatever you call it).
-You mention backfiring: this happens when ignition occurs before TDC = much too early
-You mention smell of fuel from the intake (air filter?): this happens when injection occurs against a closed inlet valve = much too early
The timing sensor uses a mechanically fixed index / position on the crankshaft; this cannot move nor alter the timing in any way. I'm sure you'll soon put your finger where it hurts
Every time the engine has failed to start since the warranty parts replacement was done, there has been no failure code.
Thread Starter
|
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 6,932
Likes: 4
From: 46th State, USA
That's what so frustrating. How long and how many time do I tell them to continue working on it and finding no issue before they start charging me labor?
There's no Lemon law in Oklahoma and I'm not sure it would apply to motorcycles if there were.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,928
Likes: 69
From: Near Myrtle Beach, SC
Intermittents are a real bitch. Yep, they make us look like idiots at the car or bike dealership when they cannot be duplicated.
I would agree that since this has only occurred twice, and since the dealer cannot duplicate the issue, then if it happens again you will need to be able to show the dealer what is happening on video (with audio of course). And it's probably going to happen again. As suggested, a cell phone or any of the small video recorders (Flip, etc.) will work. If you don't have one, borrow one. Keep it in your pocket when you ride. Dealer's cannot fix a problem that they cannot find or that they cannot reproduce or somehow witness.
Did this problem occur at all before your Stage I download? Or has both instances been after the Stage I download?
Good luck with the trouble shooting and thanks for you service in Nam.
I would agree that since this has only occurred twice, and since the dealer cannot duplicate the issue, then if it happens again you will need to be able to show the dealer what is happening on video (with audio of course). And it's probably going to happen again. As suggested, a cell phone or any of the small video recorders (Flip, etc.) will work. If you don't have one, borrow one. Keep it in your pocket when you ride. Dealer's cannot fix a problem that they cannot find or that they cannot reproduce or somehow witness.
Did this problem occur at all before your Stage I download? Or has both instances been after the Stage I download?
Good luck with the trouble shooting and thanks for you service in Nam.