Countersteering
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,378
Likes: 1
From: Boise, Idaho
RE: Countersteering
i don't feel comfortable with the passenger leaning. I always tell them to let me do the leaning/steering/counter steering. i find that if they lean too far or not at the same time i do, i'm having to adjust not only for the turn but for their lean.
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[IMG]local://upfiles/12616/0DF2375207414CF58CD02B3721A702AF.jpg[/IMG]
Tourer
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 458
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From: N.J. !!!!!
RE: Countersteering
Every little kid riding his bicycle and zipping around corners is countersteering, they just don't know it, they think they are just riding their bike. That same kid learns at some point to go real slow, even stop & start without feet touching the ground.
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 155
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From:
RE: Countersteering
ORIGINAL: Madav8tr
Counter steering and leaning go hand-in-hand. I roadrace with Wera and have done a bit of track instruction and I am amazed at how many trackday riders and/or racers don't understand the principles associated with getting a motorcycle around a corner properly. Some of these guys are EXTREMELY fast but they don't know how they are doing it. That unattained knowledge may come in handy if the ever "need" it like avoiding an obstacle or some other type of emergency. Keith Code has a book and video series called "A Twist of the Wrist"(1&2) and those should be required reading for every motorcyclist. The books are geared toward the racetrack envrionment but the basic principles and lessons are very beneficial for the street rider. Operating a big Harley is a bit different from my racebikes but the lessons I have learned on the track have helped me many times when riding my Harley. To Detro, I know exactly what you are saying about other Harley riders acting like I am riding like some madman simply because my safe pace is so much faster than theirs. What do you do though, change your style? Nahhh, they will catch up eventually
Counter steering and leaning go hand-in-hand. I roadrace with Wera and have done a bit of track instruction and I am amazed at how many trackday riders and/or racers don't understand the principles associated with getting a motorcycle around a corner properly. Some of these guys are EXTREMELY fast but they don't know how they are doing it. That unattained knowledge may come in handy if the ever "need" it like avoiding an obstacle or some other type of emergency. Keith Code has a book and video series called "A Twist of the Wrist"(1&2) and those should be required reading for every motorcyclist. The books are geared toward the racetrack envrionment but the basic principles and lessons are very beneficial for the street rider. Operating a big Harley is a bit different from my racebikes but the lessons I have learned on the track have helped me many times when riding my Harley. To Detro, I know exactly what you are saying about other Harley riders acting like I am riding like some madman simply because my safe pace is so much faster than theirs. What do you do though, change your style? Nahhh, they will catch up eventually
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 155
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From:
RE: Countersteering
ORIGINAL: SLORider
I think the point is 'you don't turn because you lean, you lean because you turn.'
The turn is initiated by the countersteering and the rest follows.
Right??
As far as your comments on the leaning thing go, I guess I missed your point, it is absolutly necessary to lean a mc when negotiating a turn or bend at all but very low speeds. In fact I dont think I could avoid it even if I tried.
The turn is initiated by the countersteering and the rest follows.
Right??
Exactly, you nailed it.
Road Master
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,183
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From: Burbank, CA
RE: Countersteering
ORIGINAL: gordon188
Its all relative, put a big mamma back there, lets say 225lbs and see how easy it is?
Its all relative, put a big mamma back there, lets say 225lbs and see how easy it is?
I have to be careful, but when my 17 yr old daughter is back there I don't even feel the difference of her back there on the bike, but when the little misses is back there, it's a lot of work. And I'll leave it at that.
I agree, about the speed demon comments. I came from a a little Ninja sport bike, and when hoppin' on the Sporty i could easily leave most BT riders behind. (notice i said most). It just becomes second nature to countersteer.
Road Captain
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 666
Likes: 1
From: Cavendish, Pei
RE: Countersteering
Our rider training courses in Ontario cover this quiet well. They call it push steering. It took my wife about 10 minutes of being on the back to learn how to lean with me, not against me. All I told her to do was stop fighting me, and lean with me because it's more fun. It worked, and man does she ever love those twisties now. Any one who stared off on dirt bikes has a huge advantage over those that didn't. After the fist day in the dirt, talk to any rider and they alll have the same complaint, sore shoulders and armsfrom PUSHING the bars to steer.. Everyone should practise this, it could save your life..Mark..
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 155
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From:
RE: Countersteering
I appreciate everyone's comments on this and would love for this thread to become so huge it takes as long to read as the pcIII slow start issue. We talk about a lot of stuff here but nothing as important as this. When I see all the new comers being welcomed or go to the dealership and see all the baby boomers especially couples allowing this to become a new stepping stone in their post kids lives etc, it bothers me that this is not a more discussed topic. I told my neighbor this a few years ago after he had purchased his new Harley, and at the time Iwas not a Harley ownern nor did I think I ever would be. Needless to say he tells me everytime I see him how many people he talks with that is not knowledgable with regards to countersteer.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 5,977
Likes: 85
From: Nevada
RE: Countersteering
I don't like my passenger to lean either as Gman said. I ask them to try to look in the direction of the turn. This usually keeps them nuetral or maybe a slight lean into the turn.
In the Keith Code video he pretty much puts to rest the notion that you can turn a bike by leaning. He placed additional "bars" on the frame justbelow the actual bars. Then had riders try to turn using the bars on the frame. Couldn't do it.
In the Keith Code video he pretty much puts to rest the notion that you can turn a bike by leaning. He placed additional "bars" on the frame justbelow the actual bars. Then had riders try to turn using the bars on the frame. Couldn't do it.