class action lawsuit against the moco...
#131
09-03-2014, 04:57 PM
Found the page to that Polaris forum...wanna jump over to a Polaris product? Hope you enjoy it (truly)...but these are the kind of people you'll be foruming and hanging with (who own them too).
http://www.thevog.net/forum/thread/2...blems-already/
Pat
http://www.thevog.net/forum/thread/2...blems-already/
Pat
#132
09-03-2014, 07:43 PM
Moderator
Found the page to that Polaris forum...wanna jump over to a Polaris product? Hope you enjoy it (truly)...but these are the kind of people you'll be foruming and hanging with (who own them too).
http://www.thevog.net/forum/thread/2...blems-already/
Pat
http://www.thevog.net/forum/thread/2...blems-already/
Pat
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
#133
09-03-2014, 07:48 PM
Tourer
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Or maybe he is just a fed up consumer that is tired of spending his hard earned money on sh.t that these corporations push as "products". Its about time someone took a stand against the inferior quality of products that comes from the moco nowadays. If you guys dealt with it 30 years ago, then fine, thats your side of the issue. If you had taken a stance against this 30 years ago, what do you think the bikes would be like now? Probably not as many issues and half *** bull crap that we still deal with to this day.
Mark my words...if Harley keeps catering to the "hardcore" bikers or "real" bikers that "deal with it" or the dying generation of "baby boomers", they will soon be bankrupt. The new "pussified" generation of bikers will not stand for this much longer, especially seeing the products coming out from Indian and Victory. If the moco keeps it up...mark my words...they will cease to make a profit as the primary supplier of motorcycles to the world. The same issues GM had that sent them into bankruptcy will be the same issues that HD has. Dont think it can happen??? Relive the auto industry back in 2007/2008.....consumers were fed up with the sh.t American products at that point. Couple that with the other "internal" issues and you had an american auto industry in shambles. And dont try to use that "bad economy" crap argument either...because Toyota made record profits in the u.s. at that time....because they sold a more superior product. There's a reason why I say the 2012-2013 bikes are the most reliable that the moco ever built. Took em that long to figure out that platform...so it will take at least 30 years for them to get this "water cooled" system figured out too. By that time, all of the "non-pussified" bikers will be dead and gone.
Mark my words...if Harley keeps catering to the "hardcore" bikers or "real" bikers that "deal with it" or the dying generation of "baby boomers", they will soon be bankrupt. The new "pussified" generation of bikers will not stand for this much longer, especially seeing the products coming out from Indian and Victory. If the moco keeps it up...mark my words...they will cease to make a profit as the primary supplier of motorcycles to the world. The same issues GM had that sent them into bankruptcy will be the same issues that HD has. Dont think it can happen??? Relive the auto industry back in 2007/2008.....consumers were fed up with the sh.t American products at that point. Couple that with the other "internal" issues and you had an american auto industry in shambles. And dont try to use that "bad economy" crap argument either...because Toyota made record profits in the u.s. at that time....because they sold a more superior product. There's a reason why I say the 2012-2013 bikes are the most reliable that the moco ever built. Took em that long to figure out that platform...so it will take at least 30 years for them to get this "water cooled" system figured out too. By that time, all of the "non-pussified" bikers will be dead and gone.
You know nothing of the auto industry and the collapse in 2008. Research the demands of the UAW. If you think the jap scrap cars are superior, I invite you to work at a Japanese car stealership in the service dept and tell me how great they are when you're doing engines, transmissions and electrical nightmares all day long...
Leave the speculation at home and the truth to the professionals.
#134
09-03-2014, 08:34 PM
Cruiser
Join Date: Sep 2012
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lol just had a thought,,, any buy a 15 and read any small print... Seems like all HD would have to do it include a statement where HD declares small loss of fluid is considered part of normal operating of the bike and proper owners pre ride inspection should be done prior to ride.to inspect fluid level... and use of said bike acknowledges the need to inspect for this concern.
just a thought.
just a thought.
#135
09-03-2014, 08:36 PM
I took delivery of my Limited Sept. 1st. 2013. Due to the coolant leak issues I was watching the forum's daily last Sept. and Oct. I remember at least one owner that wanted his money back. Had a huge following on this site. His dealer bought back his bike. The bike owner claimed a non disclosure was signed. I was having the coolant issue at the same time; I just wanted my bike fixed, not my money back. Soon after the new fill neck came out. Additionally, the dealers were starting to figure out how to work on the cooling systems. Right after the updated fill neck came out my issues stopped. I really think that had the guy that wanted his money back just hung in, he would have had his bike fixed. I think buyers remorse set in. Everyone on the forum was telling him to bail. That gets people fired up.
I love the idea of water cooled and will buy one again once I'm convinced it's all sorted out until then I'll keep riding my 14 Street Glide Special.
.
#136
09-03-2014, 09:05 PM
It means nothing, really. All new models of vehicles have kinks and issues that need to get worked out. Not everyone will experience them but they exist. NEVER buy a first-year model from any manufacturer--ever.
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
As far as the rest of what you said I don't. Yes, there are first year issues...sure. I say even so it's a SMALL percentage of the production run.
If you don't wanna buy a first year that's fine. If I buy one, from my standpoint, odds are still minimal that I'm getting one of the first run lemons.
Pat
#137
09-03-2014, 09:17 PM
Road Warrior
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
#138
09-03-2014, 09:19 PM
It means nothing, really. All new models of vehicles have kinks and issues that need to get worked out. Not everyone will experience them but they exist. NEVER buy a first-year model from any manufacturer--ever.
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
First-year models usually also have lower resale, in general, for the reasons just mentioned. This applies to vehicles of any kind. As an example, the 14 Rushmore bikes will always be tagged as 'the bikes with issues'. A couple years from now when people look for used Rushmore's, they will get advice like, "Those new 14's had issues and recalls. Not worth the risk. Get a 15 or 16''
Generally buyers don't put down a model year unless they are known for issues that they as a buyer might face. There is nothing significantly different between a 14 or 15 Limited. The coolant leak issue is solved, the clutch recall is done. Generally, the folks putting down the 14 Rushmore's are those that don't own one. By a large margin, those that own one, loves them.
#139
09-03-2014, 09:22 PM
#140
09-03-2014, 09:45 PM
Or maybe he is just a fed up consumer that is tired of spending his hard earned money on sh.t that these corporations push as "products". Its about time someone took a stand against the inferior quality of products that comes from the moco nowadays. If you guys dealt with it 30 years ago, then fine, thats your side of the issue. If you had taken a stance against this 30 years ago, what do you think the bikes would be like now? Probably not as many issues and half *** bull crap that we still deal with to this day.
Mark my words...if Harley keeps catering to the "hardcore" bikers or "real" bikers that "deal with it" or the dying generation of "baby boomers", they will soon be bankrupt. The new "pussified" generation of bikers will not stand for this much longer, especially seeing the products coming out from Indian and Victory. If the moco keeps it up...mark my words...they will cease to make a profit as the primary supplier of motorcycles to the world. The same issues GM had that sent them into bankruptcy will be the same issues that HD has. Dont think it can happen??? Relive the auto industry back in 2007/2008.....consumers were fed up with the sh.t American products at that point. Couple that with the other "internal" issues and you had an american auto industry in shambles. And dont try to use that "bad economy" crap argument either...because Toyota made record profits in the u.s. at that time....because they sold a more superior product. There's a reason why I say the 2012-2013 bikes are the most reliable that the moco ever built. Took em that long to figure out that platform...so it will take at least 30 years for them to get this "water cooled" system figured out too. By that time, all of the "non-pussified" bikers will be dead and gone.
Mark my words...if Harley keeps catering to the "hardcore" bikers or "real" bikers that "deal with it" or the dying generation of "baby boomers", they will soon be bankrupt. The new "pussified" generation of bikers will not stand for this much longer, especially seeing the products coming out from Indian and Victory. If the moco keeps it up...mark my words...they will cease to make a profit as the primary supplier of motorcycles to the world. The same issues GM had that sent them into bankruptcy will be the same issues that HD has. Dont think it can happen??? Relive the auto industry back in 2007/2008.....consumers were fed up with the sh.t American products at that point. Couple that with the other "internal" issues and you had an american auto industry in shambles. And dont try to use that "bad economy" crap argument either...because Toyota made record profits in the u.s. at that time....because they sold a more superior product. There's a reason why I say the 2012-2013 bikes are the most reliable that the moco ever built. Took em that long to figure out that platform...so it will take at least 30 years for them to get this "water cooled" system figured out too. By that time, all of the "non-pussified" bikers will be dead and gone.
Toyota reported operating losses for the first time in their history in 2008. They squeaked past GM as the number one producer of vehicles in the world.
Their recalls really taint the "superior" product claim.
Consumer brand confidence had little to do with the auto industry crisis in 2008. A major contributor was high fuel costs. Remember the cost of a barrel of oil back then? THAT was a huge driver. Ford, Dodge and GM all had been making insane money on trucks and large SUV's (as much as the high 20% range). A huge source of per unit profit just stopped that year. Stopped.
Not that you'd really care, but the MOCO saw minor decreases in sales in 2007-2008 for the US and double digits in other parts of the world. No one got out of 2008 unscathed. Petroleum prices hit a whole lot of industries. The ripple effect was widespread.
Don't get me wrong. If HD is taking a, "kiss my butt" approach to these issues, they need to get their d*cks slapped for it.
Did you know unhappy customers are more vocal than happy customers? A little research and some very old training still ring true...A happy customer tells 3-5 people an unhappy tells hundreds or thousands. With the advent of internet forums, the latter is easier. ****, look at this thread...