I know these are all tuners, but I'm wondering if there's much consensus on which might be the best route to go for a 2010 Harley with simple builds like the 103 big bore kit and D&D 2-into-1 pipes. I'm just interested in keeping costs down and getting good performance from my bike.... I'm no racer.

Is there a run down anywhere which compares and contrasts the benefits and downsides of choosing between all of these various tuners?

 

You will find days of reading here and other forums, you need to look at everything carefully and draw your own conclusions. You will see that the benefits to one individual is a downside to another, so its kinda hard to put that chart together. All of them seem to cost more than they are worth.

We are talking about modern O2 sensor equipped bikes. I don't think there is a perfect system, they all have disadvantages, but I also don't think there is a bad system out there, they all pretty much do what they say and all have plenty of satisfied customers.

Starting from scratch, and if you are comfortable around a PC, you can spend maybe $500 and are guaranteed a good tune using a Mastertune TTS. I think its up to date for the 2010 and I hear handles the throttle by wire stuff better than others. Its certainly not perfect but the consensus seems to be moving toward that system, if you like that kind of tool (you need to have access to and be comfortable around a laptop). It is easy for the amateur to get a great tune. The tool also provides, I think, easy access to more adjustments than any other tool available outside of the factory, so you have opportunity to fix more esoteric problems that may come up in your specific build. Those heavy into mods typically go there. You will see plenty of posts from individuals that started with one system or another, became frustrated with their limits, and moved to the TTS. I don't think I've seen anyone move away from the TTS.

Even with the TTS, the amateur may produce a tune that operates smoothly on the street but gets like 95% of optimum power, which is a great running bike in my mind. I'm a spend as little time tuning as possible and ride kind of guy, not concerned with that last 5%. The TTS has served me well, fixing a number of drivability issues without the need for the PITA hardware installs (more of a concern for the Dyna crowd, not much room for extras there). TTS has more features than I will ever need, but its nice to know they are there if I need them... and also if I want to spend the time to learn how to use them right. I still think its overpriced, but what isn't that has a Harley tag on it?

If you are not comfortable around a PC, its not the tool for you, the fuel packs may be a better choice.

 

here is a post that pretty well tells it like it is,,

Harley Davidson Forums > General Harley Davidson Tech Forums > Electrical/Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection
Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/elect...-be-tuned.html

12-03-2005, 06:57 PM

Terry1955
"Administrator & Troll Slayer"
My Garage
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Charleston, IL
Posts: 16,788

Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned
For all the people that don't quite understand why you need a Race Tuner (SERT) or Power Commander (PCIII USB) for your Harley please read this. This was not written by Harley (who makes the SERT-Race Tuner). I favor the Race Tuner but will concede that the PCIII is also a good piece of equipment. But PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE...Don't use the HD download


Why EFI Vehicles Need To Be Tuned
The need for "re-mapping" a fuel injected bike only arises when internal and/or
external engine components are replaced with non stock components, i.e. air
cleaners and exhaust systems. When components are changed on an engine to
any non stock or "performance" part you alter the way that engine moves air in
and out, thus altering the Volumetric Efficiency. If the V.E. is altered the stock
ECM fuel settings continue to deliver fuel at a base-line rate unaware that the air
delivery has changed. With the fuel delivery unchanged and the fact that this
engine is receiving more air there is a lean condition created that will most likely
cause engine damage due to higher heat levels in the combustion chamber. A VTwin
engine is just that, two separate cylinders in a "V" configuration which
generally speaking will cause these cylinders to flow air at a different efficiency
rate. This effect is mostly caused by a non tuned exhaust system that flows air at
different rates from front to rear thus changing the volumetric efficiency.
With the advancements and complexity of today's fuel injection systems
simplicity is not necessarily advantageous. The need to compensate for fuel
delivery to a modified engine ideally would be performed by the original engineer
or programmer of the ECM since they would be the one most knowledgeable on
this system. Since this avenue is not available to the average consumer, a
method of putting a "Band-Aid" type programmer (HD Download) to compensate
for the modifications is the easiest solution, however it is not necessarily the best.
Installing a "Band-Aid" on a system with this complexity can sometimes create a
whole new realm of problems that the original engineers could not have
anticipated.
The Dyno Jet Power Commander unit with it's 126 fuel adjustment cells and 126
spark timing cells offer simplicity that cannot always compensate for the high
demands of a modified V-Twin engine. Especially when the cylinders have a
different V.E. rate, this also offers a "Band-Aid" solution at best.
The H-D EFI Race Tuner Kit offers 220 Volumetric Efficiency adjustment cells for
each cylinder along with an Air Fuel Ratio (AFR) adjustment table that has an
additional 120 cells for a total of 560 fuel adjustment cells. There are also 220
cells for each cylinder to compensate for spark timing, fuel enrichment cells for
cold start and cranking enrichment for easier starting. With these extra tables and
cell adjustments there are over 1000 adjustments that can be made. Also
consider the advantages with having the ability to set your idle mixture as well as
idle speed and having access to your own rev limiter which is adjustable from
4000 to 7500 RPM.

__________________________________________________ _________________

The Dyno Jet Power Commander does not alter the stock rev limiter. That is why
many people use the Stage 1 Download along with it. The Stage 1 Download
raises the rev limiter to 6200 RPM.
__________________

 

Coldcase and Oct... thank you for your replies!

 

Read everything here on the different tuners.

Only way to learn this or anything else is to do it yourself. Takes a little time.

Worth the effort.

One thing, you can apply this Fuel Injection stuff to all your machines that have a engine.

 

So, the Mastertune TTS seems to be the latest, greatest? Is there any need for Dynotuning with the TTS or can you just dial in a great tune just tweaking it on your computer somehow? I wouldn't mind saving the expense of dynotuning.

 

More detailed info is available on the TTS, you can download their tuning manual from their download links. You can use a dyno or use the street as your dyno, it just takes a bit longer to collect VE data on the street.

Basic procedure is to pull the electrical cover, connect a laptop to the diag port, archive the stock map, start data recording, put the laptop in the saddlebag or backpack or somewhere on the bike (I put mine in a laptop case and strap it to the luggage rack), ride for 30-45 minutes, stop the recording, tell Vtune to come up with a better map, load it on the computer, start another recording, ride some more, repeat until VTunes says you have enough data to do a reasonable VE estimate (stats on most RPMs and loads, takes 4-5 rides usually), finalize the map and load it back into the ECU. Disconnect the laptop and done.

You can ride with what you got or are free to do more tweaking. From what I hear 95% of riders are happy here and don't need or want to do more tweaking.

If you want to maximize WOT performance, get that extra 4-5 HP maybe, you will need a dyno and their lab quality sniffers... just like any other consumer tuning tool.