A thing that has been touched upon but never really explained in this post... and really this forum (there ARE better engine forums) is stack slack.

Most will undersand side play on the rocker arms. If it is too much... take sand paper and make it large enough to use like a .015 shovelhead shim. Side play should be under .005 I think.

Stack slack... on the other hand is all the slightly outta spec or within spec but on the high side individually.. but added together... What size is the hole in the rockershaft support? Torqued to the head when checking? What is the OD of the rockerarm shaft itself? What is the ID of the rockerarm? If each of these three measurements are within spec, but on the high side.. the 'stacking' of these measurements will mean a loose top end. AND... as this will be a 'moving target' the lifters won't be able to compensate for it.

A vendor on another site did an experiment and got his parts box out on a noisey bike. He measured and matched these three parts throughout the heads and turned the bike very quiet.

Something for you guys to think about.

 

Your right Wurk Truk.

Funny how everybody says front cilinder.

Some of these noises are, might be, the valve closing. Hitting the seat. I don't think this is too harmful, MAYBE. But makes a noise.
Most upgrades include new stronger springs and agressive cams.
I wonder how much is put into the closing ramps?
I bet S&S knows.

I have done everything I can think of to reduce the slack.
OR , On ramps
Maybe when the cam gets to the on ramp and the gap, what there is of it, where the rocker touches the valve---- there is a tap.

 

Wurk Truk, thanks, its another thing to check.

My issue is that before I did the cam tensioner service, I had a VERY VERY quite engine. You could hear the pistons playing the sewing maching game. You could hear the primary churning the oil. You could hear the beat of the ignition pulses. It was a thing of beauty.

Now I hear clack clack clack. And its MUCH worse when the motor is very hot.

So I put the stock HD lifters back in. I adjusted the Andrews pushrods several times and while its quiter, it still has an annoying clack.

The only thing I can think I may have messed up, is the positioning of the rocker arm support.

It will take me 4 to 6 hours to tear it down, look, adjust, and put back together. So if anyone has that majic position, I am all eyes

Once I get rid of the clack, I will put the new lifters back and hopefully not open it up again until I move to 95".

...gene

 

Well, I just finished a 1700+ mile road trip and the engine makes the same clack as before I started. So that proved to me its not harmful. But - to enjoy the ride I used earplugs - no clack - sounded like a stock engine.

...gene

 

Well, After much reading, fiddling, and screwing up adjustments. I have discovered the magic formula.

The BIG trick seems to have been suggested by tcfamy, thanks soooo much.

"2.After pulling both rocker covers I loosened the rocker arm supports and moved them as far as possible to the camshaft side before tightening. They moved a few thousandths."

The rear rocker support moved very little, but the front had to move at least a 10th or more.

Once I got "The King" back together, about 90% of the clack was just gone. It now sounded like it did before the cam tensioner service.

I went back to the Andrews EZ-Install pushrods and moved to 5 turns. If the EZ-Install are 28TPI that is .178 down from zero lash, if the pushrods are 32TPI that is .156 down.

And that reduced the clack to what I beleive is just valve noise.

Now that I can actually hear the bike and not the clack - I can start finding all that loose crap that is making other weird noises

...gene

 

Well, after about another 1000 miles the clack came back. BUT - I fixed it.

I did three things - sorry I was not exactly expecting any of these efforts to fix the clack but the engine purrs like a new one.

I decided that with 30K miles on the lifters, it was time to put the ones I bought from ERW last year back in the bike. I also opted for a Beasly Spring as a bit more oil pressure can't hurt.

When I was disassembling the bike I noticed a very bad thing. The rear header was cracked. It had a crack about an in down from the head about 2 inches long that split and ran along the weld for another inch. So there was a great deal more disassembly than I anticipated. Taking the stock exhaust off is a PITA.

So, I replaced the Beasly Spring and lifters. Other than adjusting the andrews EZ-Install pushrods is a real pain, all went as expected.

Next I took the cracked header to 3 different muffler shops before Midis (Circle and Platte for those in the Springs) who fixed it. I had spent $10 on 2 O2 bungs (yep, I bought the T-Max w/auto - thanks Shooter64!) and Midus repaired the crack, welded on the bungs for a very inexpensive cost - good guys there too.

One note: punch the 5/8" whole in the headers 'before' you weld the bungs on. Punching the whole after and cleaning it up is a waste of 3+ hours.

Next I decided that I need to paint the header pipes. I went to Checker and saw, low and behold, Ford Blue exhaust paint. Being a crazed idiot, I picked up the blue and well - its was not the dark Ford Blue but a light powder blue - ewww yuck. Then I painted them black.

On - Painting. Even letting each coat of paint dry for an hour the paint is very soft and easily damaged. Just laying the pipes on cardboard mared the paint. Also, make sure the bike is outside when you start it up, the smoke from the paint curing makes the bike look like it's on fire

So after 2+ days of wrenching, running around to muffler shops, and fighting with paint, I started the bike up and wow - its purrs like a kitten. I am sure the cracked header contributed to the clack, but I am unsure how much benefit was obtained from the Beasly Spring and new lifters.

But then, I can now enjoy the sound of a well running twin-cam.
...gene

 

Wow... this thread really took off... All it took was me to not pay attention to it...

My extended warranty ran out in April. Dealer still insists it's a normal noise. I don't buy that.

I switched over from Mobil1 20w-50 to Valvoline GT-1 50wt. The motor sounds even louder. I am thinking about pulling the rocker covers, swapping out the pushrods for adjustables, swapping to aftermarket lifters, and checking clearances. Other than that, I am clueless.

 

While the posts are scattered all over, I decided to start my modifications with Thundermax w/autotune (shooter64, great price, great service, many thanks).

So with that in mind I decided to go to my local stealer (oh yea, HD dealer) and get their WHAM-BAM-THANK-YOU-MAM dyno run to get a baseline. $45 on the web site. Get in line now, its WORTH IT!!!!

First, let me say that I have had poor experiences with Pikes Peak Harley - BUT OMG - this was not one of them. In fact this was a fantastic-grand-wonderful experience. Simply amazing. I will be back.

But back to the run. The tech made several full pulls and checked mid range several times. I watched from outside the booth in the main showroom. Again, I was amazed as the monitor showed me several factors and biggest was AFR. The AFR was in the red many times during the pulls. That is, over 14.6 AFR through most of the midrange and just not quite over everywhere else.

The dyno booth has a general fan and the dyno has specific fans that can be aimed at your engine. Really nice setup. With the fans on, the tech let the bike warm for 10 min (maybe a bit more). Again, very nice.

So I got my baseline (attached) and was amazed that at 6000ft elevation (hey it is Colorado Springs) I still produced these numbers with only SE stage 1. The tech spent time walking me throgh the results - Just grand.

Now for the kicker, and I mean real kicker.

I was wondering where my bike was, as I had paid the paltry $44.50 - and my my my - they were cleaning it. It looked better than when I clean it.

I am fairly easy to **** off, I just spend my money elsewhere. BUT DAMN - that is service.

I am much more than a happy camper, I am a customer that will spend money at Pikes Peak Harley.

...gene

 

LOL... that still don't help my tapping.... I can't afford to go for a new ECM setup. If I can replace some rocker arms, lifters, etc etc, then that is fine...

 

Took the bike to a local indy to get the back tire changed. I mentioned the noise to him, and he took it for a test ride. He brought it back and said that it sounded like the cam chains and tensioners were wore out. WTF???

This bike only has 30k on it, but it is about 5 yrs old... Could the chains and tensioners be causing the top end to make racket? One thing I did notice is that the bike surges a little. I am wondering if the chains are slack, will they affect the timing of the motor to cause this? The indy said they charge about $45/hr for labor, plus parts. IIRC, the tensioners were about $70 each, and I am not sure about the chains... plus the gaskets and such....

I am running out of ideas....