Night Rider .com a substitute ?
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Road Master
Joined: May 2006
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Night Rider .com a substitute ?
Ive seen a couple post regarding Night Rider .com.
Can anyone tell me if its a substitute for a fuel pack or Power Commander ?
Or is it only to enrichen the fuel on a stock 96 cu in. set up ?
I,m going to have the 1000 mile glorifide oil change done next week and once I get it back I,m installing some Vance and Hines Big Shot Staggered pipes and either a Power Commander or a
V & Hfuel pack ..But can I use the NightRider set up insted ??
Thanks .
Can anyone tell me if its a substitute for a fuel pack or Power Commander ?
Or is it only to enrichen the fuel on a stock 96 cu in. set up ?
I,m going to have the 1000 mile glorifide oil change done next week and once I get it back I,m installing some Vance and Hines Big Shot Staggered pipes and either a Power Commander or a
V & Hfuel pack ..But can I use the NightRider set up insted ??
Thanks .
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 11
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
There have been much much more than a couple of posts on this topic. Have you been to Night Riders site? Contact him directly.Most that have are impressed by his helpfulness. Most have been very positive about this product. I have the XIEDs on my FXDF and I am very satisfied butcurrently the only mods I have that affect the engine are drilled out baffles. I have purchased a very free flowing AC, and plan to install Rush Mufflers w/1.75" baffles.
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
70Mach1,
My answer depends upon your future performance plans for your scoot. If you don't ever plan on going beyond a Stage 1 setup (free flowing pipes,SE A/C or other high flow A/C, and stage 1 ECM download) then the IEDs are a nice addition to your scoot. It will drop your A/F ratio to about 14.2:1 and lower the operating temp and generally improve the ridability of the bike. If you want to wring out every single pony you can out of the engine and do some dyno tuning then they're not for you.
If your future performance plans are Stage 2+ (big bore, cams, etc.) or be able to adjust a number of engine parameters then I would say the investment in the PCIII, SERT, T-max, etc. is the way to go.
My answer depends upon your future performance plans for your scoot. If you don't ever plan on going beyond a Stage 1 setup (free flowing pipes,SE A/C or other high flow A/C, and stage 1 ECM download) then the IEDs are a nice addition to your scoot. It will drop your A/F ratio to about 14.2:1 and lower the operating temp and generally improve the ridability of the bike. If you want to wring out every single pony you can out of the engine and do some dyno tuning then they're not for you.
If your future performance plans are Stage 2+ (big bore, cams, etc.) or be able to adjust a number of engine parameters then I would say the investment in the PCIII, SERT, T-max, etc. is the way to go.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 11
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
Sorry man, I didn't answer your question. I suppose for me it is a substitute for the Fuel Pak or the Power Commander. It is probably more limited though, as it only effects the system during closed loop which is up to 50% throttle and 4k rpm. It basically recalibrates the output from the O2 sensor causing the ECM to respond with a richer Air/Fuel mixture. In the case of the XIEDs the mixture goes from 14.7:1 to 13.8:1. I think the IEDs take it 14.2:1.
These were the most cost effective option for me at this time. My eventual goal is to replace the ECM altogether with a Thunder Max or comething of that nature.
These were the most cost effective option for me at this time. My eventual goal is to replace the ECM altogether with a Thunder Max or comething of that nature.
Road Master
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 967
Likes: 3
From: Eastern Massachusetts
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
No, the products from Nightrider don't substitute for the Fuel Pack etc. All the wire kits do is enrichen the mixture when the engine is running closed loop. That's when it's idling or when it's operating at steady throttle under 5,000 RPM.
Road Warrior
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,530
Likes: 0
From: Sussex County NJ
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
ORIGINAL: Splatter
No, the products from Nightrider don't substitute for the Fuel Pack etc. All the wire kits do is enrichen the mixture when the engine is running closed loop. That's when it's idling or when it's operating at steady throttle under 5,000 RPM.
No, the products from Nightrider don't substitute for the Fuel Pack etc. All the wire kits do is enrichen the mixture when the engine is running closed loop. That's when it's idling or when it's operating at steady throttle under 5,000 RPM.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,718
Likes: 11
From: Back in the Good Ole USA. South Carolina to be exact.
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
Quotes from NightRiders Site.
13.8:1 AFR Plug-n-Play Fuel Enrichment upgrade for 2007/2008 Harley-Davidson motorcycles with OEM O2 sensors.
The XiED is the preferred upgrade by most riders. The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.
This is a response to an e-mail I sent.
You can put a set of slip-on mufflers on the 07/08 bikes without doing anything to the EFI. Harley documented this back in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine, which they publish.
Because the O2 sensor keeps the AFR constant under 4000RPM and under 50% throttle, 14.7:1 is as lean as the engine is going to get. Stock mufflers, 14.7:1; aftermarket mufflers, still 14.7:1; new air cleaner, well you get the picture.
The HD Stage 1 kit does nothing to richen the closed loop range controlled by the O2 sensor. Federal emissions regulations prevent them from doing this.
V&H also doesn't make changes to the closed loop range because that would get them in trouble with the California regulators.
So the least cost way to richen the closed loop AFR on stock bikes and those with changes like you want is the XiED's.
Note that Closed Loop is defined asunder 4000RPM and under 50% throttle, not "when it's idling or when it's operating at steady throttle under 5,000 RPM" Closed loop is where most of your riding is going to be anyway.
13.8:1 AFR Plug-n-Play Fuel Enrichment upgrade for 2007/2008 Harley-Davidson motorcycles with OEM O2 sensors.
The XiED is the preferred upgrade by most riders. The richer fuel mixture provides better heat reduction and improved performance.
Nightrider's unique "patent pending" design to quickly and simply improve the closed loop fuel mixture on your TC96/103/110 engine from 14.6:1 to 13.8:1. This results in cooler exhaust temperatures. Recommended for stock bikes and those with upgraded exhaust or intake.
This is a response to an e-mail I sent.
You can put a set of slip-on mufflers on the 07/08 bikes without doing anything to the EFI. Harley documented this back in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine, which they publish.
Because the O2 sensor keeps the AFR constant under 4000RPM and under 50% throttle, 14.7:1 is as lean as the engine is going to get. Stock mufflers, 14.7:1; aftermarket mufflers, still 14.7:1; new air cleaner, well you get the picture.
The HD Stage 1 kit does nothing to richen the closed loop range controlled by the O2 sensor. Federal emissions regulations prevent them from doing this.
V&H also doesn't make changes to the closed loop range because that would get them in trouble with the California regulators.
So the least cost way to richen the closed loop AFR on stock bikes and those with changes like you want is the XiED's.
Note that Closed Loop is defined asunder 4000RPM and under 50% throttle, not "when it's idling or when it's operating at steady throttle under 5,000 RPM" Closed loop is where most of your riding is going to be anyway.
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Road Master
Joined: May 2006
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RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
So is the addition of VANCE AND HINES BIG SHOT STAGGERED and SCREAMIN EAGLE stage 1 AC ,with the Night Rider set up O.K. ????
Or should I just go with the fuel pack or Power Commander ?
I have no intention of any other big engine mods ...
Thanks..
Or should I just go with the fuel pack or Power Commander ?
I have no intention of any other big engine mods ...
Thanks..
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Road Warrior
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,393
Likes: 8
From: Ohio
RE: Night Rider .com a substitute ?
70mach,
Set aside an hour and call Stephen Mullen at nightrider. He will answer any questions you have. Worst case, you pay <$100 for the part, spend 10 minutes installing them, and ride for a few days. Pull the plugs and see how they look. If you don't like what you see (still to lean, or now too rich) or how it rides, you can sell the parts on the forum and probably take a minimal loss. One plus on these is that you don't get killed on shipping like you do with some other large or heavy upgrades.
Set aside an hour and call Stephen Mullen at nightrider. He will answer any questions you have. Worst case, you pay <$100 for the part, spend 10 minutes installing them, and ride for a few days. Pull the plugs and see how they look. If you don't like what you see (still to lean, or now too rich) or how it rides, you can sell the parts on the forum and probably take a minimal loss. One plus on these is that you don't get killed on shipping like you do with some other large or heavy upgrades.
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