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Ignition Woes...

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  #81  
Old 05-01-2024, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Max Headflow
You can doubt anything I suggest.. See this eyeball. Does it look like it cares? How did you test the plug wires? Measured the resistance before and after? Run a Hipot test? Actually Evo crain high 4s were known for failing..
We're pretty much in agreement, so why are you ?
As I remember, tested the wires for resistance, before and after, then the coil same way. It was some years ago, before HI-4's were known junk.
One more thing I'm learning...don't try to help someone unless you like criticism. Jesus Christ.
Did you skip the part where I said it's fixed now?
 

Last edited by RHPAW; 05-01-2024 at 09:07 AM.
  #82  
Old 05-01-2024, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by RHPAW
We're pretty much in agreement, so why are you ?
As I remember, tested the wires for resistance, before and after, then the coil same way. It was some years ago, before HI-4's were known junk.
One more thing I'm learning...don't try to help someone unless you like criticism. Jesus Christ.
Did you skip the part where I said it's fixed now?
You doubt me, I doubt you and you get all salty?
 
  #83  
Old 05-01-2024, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Max Headflow
When you go from single fire to dual fire you stop using one of the 2ki outputs.. That output failed.

ADD:
After thinking about this if all you did was flip the dual fire / single fire switch from single fire to dual fire and it worked one of the sensors on the back of the plate might have died..
There are no sensors on the back of my plate if you're referring to the hall effect pickup. The timing rotor cup has two windows that trigger the events.. Yes one of the outputs or should I say both of them went to ship because it wouldn't even start neither way and the timing was so far off that at times I would get this super loud explosion out the exhaust which was because the ignition module fired on the exhaust stroke Let me tell you it was ****ing loud..

But regardless the module was getting fried and the only thing I think that could fry the module is high voltage.. There is nothing in the secondary ignition that's going to take out the ignition module.. It's all downstream it doesn't back feed.. unless the secondary on the coil is leaking back into the primary, who the hell knows..

Right now I will say, I'm running a dual fire coil with a screaming Eagle ignition module the same one that failed under single fire but will not start and run but will under dual fire.. odd but it is how it is and the bike is running flawlessly right now.. And believe me I'm definitely carrying spare everything in the saddleback right now..

As for @RHPAW Some of the information that you gave was misleading about the plug wires even I questioned it but I understand where you're coming from cuz you came back and tried to correct it, no big deal.. You just need to understand @Max Headflow He just likes to make sure that what is stated is correct.. And yes absolutely the Crane hi-4 went to **** long time ago.. S&S Had to go at it and it's still ****..
 
  #84  
Old 05-01-2024, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 98hotrodfatboy
There are no sensors on the back of my plate if you're referring to the hall effect pickup. The timing rotor cup has two windows that trigger the events.. Yes one of the outputs or should I say both of them went to ship because it wouldn't even start neither way and the timing was so far off that at times I would get this super loud explosion out the exhaust which was because the ignition module fired on the exhaust stroke Let me tell you it was ****ing loud..

But regardless the module was getting fried and the only thing I think that could fry the module is high voltage.. There is nothing in the secondary ignition that's going to take out the ignition module.. It's all downstream it doesn't back feed.. unless the secondary on the coil is leaking back into the primary, who the hell knows..

Right now I will say, I'm running a dual fire coil with a screaming Eagle ignition module the same one that failed under single fire but will not start and run but will under dual fire.. odd but it is how it is and the bike is running flawlessly right now.. And believe me I'm definitely carrying spare everything in the saddleback right now..

As for @RHPAW Some of the information that you gave was misleading about the plug wires even I questioned it but I understand where you're coming from cuz you came back and tried to correct it, no big deal.. You just need to understand @Max Headflow He just likes to make sure that what is stated is correct.. And yes absolutely the Crane hi-4 went to **** long time ago.. S&S Had to go at it and it's still ****..

Well I thought it was an internal one. The problem with the external one is that it utilizes the stock sensor and tries to figure out single fire on the run.. Not sure how they do it but I would not run that one on a high performance motor unless you run it dual fire all the time.
Dump the module and go to the nose cone 2KI.

You haven't a clue about coils.. A coil is nothing more than a transformer where energy is stored in the core. Coils are bidirectional. It's probably not the the problem tho now that I know you are running and external 2000.. You might get away with it if you try to add filtering to the power going in.. Say 2 caps one 200 uf and one 0.1 uf. Don''t know if it will help.

BTW
Why does the install guide say this..

On any electronic advance ignition such as the Dyna 2000 or the stock Harley ignition, you must use carbon or
graphite core type suppression spark plug wires with a resistance in the range of 2000 to 4000 ohms per foot to reduce
radio frequency interference. Use of metal core wires may cause malfunction of the ignition due to severe electrical
noise generated at the spark plugs.
The original wires supplied by Harley-Davidson are acceptable. Suppression wires
are also available from Dynatek.
Add: They do by figuring out the time between gaps in the ignition rotor..
 

Last edited by Max Headflow; 05-01-2024 at 05:49 PM.
  #85  
Old 05-01-2024, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Max Headflow

Well I thought it was an internal one. The problem with the external one is that it utilizes the stock sensor and tries to figure out single fire on the run.. Not sure how they do it but I would not run that one on a high performance motor unless you run it dual fire all the time.
Dump the module and go to the nose cone 2KI.

You haven't a clue about coils.. A coil is nothing more than a transformer where energy is stored in the core. Coils are bidirectional. It's probably not the the problem tho now that I know you are running and external 2000.. You might get away with it if you try to add filtering to the power going in.. Say 2 caps one 200 uf and one 0.1 uf. Don''t know if it will help.

BTW
Why does the install guide say this..
​​​​​​
Like I said earlier I always use a carbon core and yeah my resistance is literally 4000 per 1 ft.I never use anything else..

And yes I do believe that it was the power source going in taken out the module..
 
  #86  
Old 05-01-2024, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 98hotrodfatboy
​​​​​​
Like I said earlier I always use a carbon core and yeah my resistance is literally 4000 per 1 ft.I never use anything else..

And yes I do believe that it was the power source going in taken out the module..
Here is the thing tho.. If it works fine single fire running 2 coils ( you only flipped the switch), then something is feeding back into the system and screwing up the microprocessor that drives the coils.. It can be from the coil , plug wires as stated by Dynatek of supply of power to the module..

It's odd that the SE module works, I thought they were made by Dynatek.
 
  #87  
Old 05-01-2024, 06:03 PM
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Easy way to think about - no ignition can "guess" ahead as to when a signal will get there. So, it takes a signal off the rotor cup and delays it to the plug wires. How much delay depends on engine rpm, voes input and whatever it's set on the switches.
 
  #88  
Old 05-01-2024, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by t150vej
Easy way to think about - no ignition can "guess" ahead as to when a signal will get there. So, it takes a signal off the rotor cup and delays it to the plug wires. How much delay depends on engine rpm, voes input and whatever it's set on the switches.
I wonder how it advances the timing as the Rs go up?
 
  #89  
Old 05-01-2024, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Max Headflow
I wonder how it advances the timing as the Rs go up?
The faster the windows trigger the module / the more counts per second, the less it keeps it retarded.
 
  #90  
Old 05-01-2024, 06:40 PM
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Bob, I've been collecting info in my memory, mostly because the web pages I had bookmarked disappeared apparently.

In the mean time, when you have time, inspect the S&S tower for the rear cylinder. Look for even a hint of a crack or carbon track, just like an old distributor cap.
 


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