Major Oil Problem
#1
06-02-2008, 12:13 PM
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Major Oil Problem
All,
I am having major problems getting oil to circulate in the motor on my '02 FXST. I just put a Wood TW-6/GMR 98" top end kit on it, cranked it for about 2 minutes in 15 second intervals to get oil moving, started it and never got oil pressure- shut down after about 20 seconds. I open up the oil tank and find out that a lot of oil had sumped into the motor and now I had about 2 quarts too much oil, which came within an inch of the top of the oil-fill spout on the oil bag. Obviously my oil pump is scavenging ok. I immediately drained off oil to just below half way between the high and low marks on the dipstick. I cranked the motor with no plugs for a good 2 minutes in 15 second intervals, and the oil pressure light never went off, and after opening up a push rod cover, verified that the pushrod was still dry. I started it and ran it for about 10 seconds figuring that maybe the starter wasn't turning fast enough to build pressure but again, the light stayed on, and the pushrods were dry, valve train making tons of "lube me or lose me!" type noise.
The weird thing, or at least something I never noticed prior to tearing down the stock motor is that when I crank the motor for a bit, and then pause, if I open the oil tank up, there is an air pressure equalization that occurs, like a sucking sound into the oil bag as I take out the filler cap. So it seems like a vaccum is being created (again- not sure if this is normal), but the oil level in the tank never budges.
I called GMR and talked to someone there (don't remember who, but it wasn't Steve) and he indicated that I might have a pinched O-ring on the oil-pump where it enters the block, or that the oil pump might be assembled incorrectly. I had the manual when I re-assembled the oil pump and am pretty sure it is back together right, and I was pretty careful with the O-ring. I am really trying to avoid re-opening the cam chest as it would entail pulling the gas tank, rocker covers/arms as well due to "non-quick install" push rods. So I am looking for the voice of experience prior to tearing down 70% of the motor again just to check an O ring.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
I am having major problems getting oil to circulate in the motor on my '02 FXST. I just put a Wood TW-6/GMR 98" top end kit on it, cranked it for about 2 minutes in 15 second intervals to get oil moving, started it and never got oil pressure- shut down after about 20 seconds. I open up the oil tank and find out that a lot of oil had sumped into the motor and now I had about 2 quarts too much oil, which came within an inch of the top of the oil-fill spout on the oil bag. Obviously my oil pump is scavenging ok. I immediately drained off oil to just below half way between the high and low marks on the dipstick. I cranked the motor with no plugs for a good 2 minutes in 15 second intervals, and the oil pressure light never went off, and after opening up a push rod cover, verified that the pushrod was still dry. I started it and ran it for about 10 seconds figuring that maybe the starter wasn't turning fast enough to build pressure but again, the light stayed on, and the pushrods were dry, valve train making tons of "lube me or lose me!" type noise.
The weird thing, or at least something I never noticed prior to tearing down the stock motor is that when I crank the motor for a bit, and then pause, if I open the oil tank up, there is an air pressure equalization that occurs, like a sucking sound into the oil bag as I take out the filler cap. So it seems like a vaccum is being created (again- not sure if this is normal), but the oil level in the tank never budges.
I called GMR and talked to someone there (don't remember who, but it wasn't Steve) and he indicated that I might have a pinched O-ring on the oil-pump where it enters the block, or that the oil pump might be assembled incorrectly. I had the manual when I re-assembled the oil pump and am pretty sure it is back together right, and I was pretty careful with the O-ring. I am really trying to avoid re-opening the cam chest as it would entail pulling the gas tank, rocker covers/arms as well due to "non-quick install" push rods. So I am looking for the voice of experience prior to tearing down 70% of the motor again just to check an O ring.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
#2
06-02-2008, 02:06 PM
#3
06-02-2008, 02:20 PM
RE: Major Oil Problem
ORIGINAL: dohare
All,
I am having major problems getting oil to circulate in the motor on my '02 FXST. I just put a Wood TW-6/GMR 98" top end kit on it, cranked it for about 2 minutes in 15 second intervals to get oil moving, started it and never got oil pressure- shut down after about 20 seconds. I open up the oil tank and find out that a lot of oil had bumped into the motor and now I had about 2 quarts too much oil, which came within an inch of the top of the oil-fill spout on the oil bag. Obviously my oil pump is scavenging ok. I immediately drained off oil to just below half way between the high and low marks on the dipstick. I cranked the motor with no plugs for a good 2 minutes in 15 second intervals, and the oil pressure light never went off, and after opening up a push rod cover, verified that the pushrod was still dry. I started it and ran it for about 10 seconds figuring that maybe the starter wasn't turning fast enough to build pressure but again, the light stayed on, and the pushrods were dry, valve train making tons of "lube me or lose me!" type noise.
The weird thing, or at least something I never noticed prior to tearing down the stock motor is that when I crank the motor for a bit, and then pause, if I open the oil tank up, there is an air pressure equalization that occurs, like a sucking sound into the oil bag as I take out the filler cap. So it seems like a vacuum is being created (again- not sure if this is normal), but the oil level in the tank never budges.
I called GMR and talked to someone there (don't remember who, but it wasn't Steve) and he indicated that I might have a pinched O-ring on the oil-pump where it enters the block, or that the oil pump might be assembled incorrectly. I had the manual when I re-assembled the oil pump and am pretty sure it is back together right, and I was pretty careful with the O-ring. I am really trying to avoid re-opening the cam chest as it would entail pulling the gas tank, rocker covers/arms as well due to "non-quick install" push rods. So I am looking for the voice of experience prior to tearing down 70% of the motor again just to check an O ring.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
All,
I am having major problems getting oil to circulate in the motor on my '02 FXST. I just put a Wood TW-6/GMR 98" top end kit on it, cranked it for about 2 minutes in 15 second intervals to get oil moving, started it and never got oil pressure- shut down after about 20 seconds. I open up the oil tank and find out that a lot of oil had bumped into the motor and now I had about 2 quarts too much oil, which came within an inch of the top of the oil-fill spout on the oil bag. Obviously my oil pump is scavenging ok. I immediately drained off oil to just below half way between the high and low marks on the dipstick. I cranked the motor with no plugs for a good 2 minutes in 15 second intervals, and the oil pressure light never went off, and after opening up a push rod cover, verified that the pushrod was still dry. I started it and ran it for about 10 seconds figuring that maybe the starter wasn't turning fast enough to build pressure but again, the light stayed on, and the pushrods were dry, valve train making tons of "lube me or lose me!" type noise.
The weird thing, or at least something I never noticed prior to tearing down the stock motor is that when I crank the motor for a bit, and then pause, if I open the oil tank up, there is an air pressure equalization that occurs, like a sucking sound into the oil bag as I take out the filler cap. So it seems like a vacuum is being created (again- not sure if this is normal), but the oil level in the tank never budges.
I called GMR and talked to someone there (don't remember who, but it wasn't Steve) and he indicated that I might have a pinched O-ring on the oil-pump where it enters the block, or that the oil pump might be assembled incorrectly. I had the manual when I re-assembled the oil pump and am pretty sure it is back together right, and I was pretty careful with the O-ring. I am really trying to avoid re-opening the cam chest as it would entail pulling the gas tank, rocker covers/arms as well due to "non-quick install" push rods. So I am looking for the voice of experience prior to tearing down 70% of the motor again just to check an O ring.
Thanks in advance,
Dan
Forgive me if I missed this is your post but as soon as I saw you say no oil pressure after the cam install I'm jumping ahead to give you my opinion.
There are two separator plates and a spring washer in the pump along with a set of feed gyros (thin set) and a set of return gyros (thick set) I bet you a dollar you have one of the seperators up against the cam plate which will block all oil feed in and out of the pump. The stack up goes like this...: return gyros in first, separator plate, spring washer ,separator plate, and feed gyros. Yes you will have to go back in....sorry....if it isn't stacked properly. It could be the '0' ring too but it's been my experience that most first timers will get the pump messed up.
Good Luck
#4
06-02-2008, 02:41 PM
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RE: Major Oil Problem
vib- I used the tappet block alignment pins they now package as the oil pump alignment tool- didn't rotate the tire though.
Doc1- You might be right. I assembled it from the blowup in the HD service manual, but I think I can visualize the seperator plate on the outside, so maybe I didn't follow the manual as well as I thought.
Looks like I'm tearing it down tonight- thanks guys, I'll keep you posted!
Doc1- You might be right. I assembled it from the blowup in the HD service manual, but I think I can visualize the seperator plate on the outside, so maybe I didn't follow the manual as well as I thought.
Looks like I'm tearing it down tonight- thanks guys, I'll keep you posted!
#5
06-02-2008, 10:30 PM
RE: Major Oil Problem
ORIGINAL: Doc 1
...
There are two separator plates and a spring washer in the pump along with a set of feed gyros (thin set) and a set of return gyros (thick set) I bet you a dollar you have one of the seperators up against the cam plate which will block all oil feed in and out of the pump. The stack up goes like this...: return gyros in first, separator plate, spring washer ,separator plate, and feed gyros. Yes you will have to go back in....sorry....if it isn't stacked properly. It could be the '0' ring too but it's been my experience that most first timers will get the pump messed up.
Good Luck
...
There are two separator plates and a spring washer in the pump along with a set of feed gyros (thin set) and a set of return gyros (thick set) I bet you a dollar you have one of the seperators up against the cam plate which will block all oil feed in and out of the pump. The stack up goes like this...: return gyros in first, separator plate, spring washer ,separator plate, and feed gyros. Yes you will have to go back in....sorry....if it isn't stacked properly. It could be the '0' ring too but it's been my experience that most first timers will get the pump messed up.
Good Luck
#6
06-05-2008, 10:09 AM
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RE: Major Oil Problem
Doc that must have been it- I say must (rather than definately was) because when I pulled the cam plate the feed side of the pump fell out before I could see how it was assembled- but the spacer fell out with it and I can't imagine the spacer would have that easy of a time falling out since it is in a keyway.
I did a 6.5 hour marathon teardown (rocker arms to oil pump) and re-assembly, pulled the oil pressure send switch and cranked with no gas to see if I would get oil and I did (at today's prices, about $1 worth)! I was also trying to clear any air out of that passage that might prevent the sensor from reading right away. Then I started up the motor and within 2 seconds the oil light went off- SUCCESS!
Thanks again!
I did a 6.5 hour marathon teardown (rocker arms to oil pump) and re-assembly, pulled the oil pressure send switch and cranked with no gas to see if I would get oil and I did (at today's prices, about $1 worth)! I was also trying to clear any air out of that passage that might prevent the sensor from reading right away. Then I started up the motor and within 2 seconds the oil light went off- SUCCESS!
Thanks again!
#7
06-05-2008, 10:15 AM
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RE: Major Oil Problem
ORIGINAL: dohare
Doc that must have been it- I say must (rather than definately was) because when I pulled the cam plate the feed side of the pump fell out before I could see how it was assembled- but the spacer fell out with it and I can't imagine the spacer would have that easy of a time falling out since it is in a keyway.
I did a 6.5 hour marathon teardown (rocker arms to oil pump) and re-assembly, pulled the oil pressure send switch and cranked with no gas to see if I would get oil and I did (at today's prices, about $1 worth)! \\;\\\\\\; I was also trying to clear any air out of that passage that might prevent the sensor from reading right away. \\;\\\\\\; Then I started up the motor and within 2 seconds the oil light went off- SUCCESS! \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\;
Thanks again!
Doc that must have been it- I say must (rather than definately was) because when I pulled the cam plate the feed side of the pump fell out before I could see how it was assembled- but the spacer fell out with it and I can't imagine the spacer would have that easy of a time falling out since it is in a keyway.
I did a 6.5 hour marathon teardown (rocker arms to oil pump) and re-assembly, pulled the oil pressure send switch and cranked with no gas to see if I would get oil and I did (at today's prices, about $1 worth)! \\;\\\\\\; I was also trying to clear any air out of that passage that might prevent the sensor from reading right away. \\;\\\\\\; Then I started up the motor and within 2 seconds the oil light went off- SUCCESS! \\;\\\\\\;
 \\;\\\\\\; Thanks again!
Cool, now go out and do a burn out already!
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