Here's what happens
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 9,218
Likes: 3,176
From: west Michigan
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,814
Likes: 5,120
From: SW Ohio
Here's what I posted over there:
The rider locked the rear brake and released it when the rear of the machine stepped out to the right. The instant he released the rear brake the rear wheel snapped back in line with the front and high sided him.
Watch the video several times and you'll see the rear skid mark stop; the rear wheel moves left to get in line with the front and the rear of the bike lifts. It's a classic braking high side. My guess is he used very little, if any, front brake. Here's the truly sad part; he probably doesn't know what really happened. That means it'll happen again.
Let's be clear about something; ABS prevents the wheels from skidding by releasing the brakes. Improper braking technique and the engagement of ABS can still put you into the back of a car because braking distance is increased as compared to good threshold braking where the wheels don't lose traction.
If you want to decrease stopping distance (there is a difference between braking distance and stopping distance) on any motorcycle these few things may help:
Pay f*cking attention. At 50 mph you travel roughly 75 feet per second. Looking away for even one second is 75 feet of road you haven't seen. Add reaction time to what you've perceived as a threat and the distance gets even greater. The average car is 14 feet long; 75 feet is 5 car lengths. Again, you can add half again that much distance if you have perfect reaction time; more if you don't.
Maintain a safe following distance. I would consider 2 seconds a bare minimum and ultimately that guy had that, he just used it up because he wasn't paying attention. Make allowances for pavement conditions (wet/dry etc) and travel speed.
Practice Emergency Braking as often as you can. Learn to apply the front and rear brakes properly so the front contact patch isn't immediately overwhelmed (because of weight transfer) and causes a front tire skid. Remember that if you don't have ABS, never release the rear brake at the sign of a rear skid and DO release the front brake and immediately re-apply at the sign of a front skid. If the bike starts to yaw (step out) steer (while braking) into the yaw so the bike doesn't switch ends. Bear in mind that steering into the yaw is really steering into the direction you were previously going. First on a closed course and when you become proficient at least once on your daily ride when you have no one behind you. Emergency Braking technique is a lot like fighting; every man thinks he can do it and will rise to the occasion when the times comes. Without proper training and practice that usually isn't the case.
Make sure your machine is in good shape. See to it that brake pads are good and the fluid isn't contaminated with moisture. A couple good hard brake applications on the freeway to almost zero mph can heat the fluid to a point where the moisture in brake fluid turns to steam and you get a collapsed pedal or lever. This can happen on ANY bike including a bike with ABS.
I have ABS and non ABS motorcycles. I can ride either of them safely because I work at it.
The rider locked the rear brake and released it when the rear of the machine stepped out to the right. The instant he released the rear brake the rear wheel snapped back in line with the front and high sided him.
Watch the video several times and you'll see the rear skid mark stop; the rear wheel moves left to get in line with the front and the rear of the bike lifts. It's a classic braking high side. My guess is he used very little, if any, front brake. Here's the truly sad part; he probably doesn't know what really happened. That means it'll happen again.
Let's be clear about something; ABS prevents the wheels from skidding by releasing the brakes. Improper braking technique and the engagement of ABS can still put you into the back of a car because braking distance is increased as compared to good threshold braking where the wheels don't lose traction.
If you want to decrease stopping distance (there is a difference between braking distance and stopping distance) on any motorcycle these few things may help:
Pay f*cking attention. At 50 mph you travel roughly 75 feet per second. Looking away for even one second is 75 feet of road you haven't seen. Add reaction time to what you've perceived as a threat and the distance gets even greater. The average car is 14 feet long; 75 feet is 5 car lengths. Again, you can add half again that much distance if you have perfect reaction time; more if you don't.
Maintain a safe following distance. I would consider 2 seconds a bare minimum and ultimately that guy had that, he just used it up because he wasn't paying attention. Make allowances for pavement conditions (wet/dry etc) and travel speed.
Practice Emergency Braking as often as you can. Learn to apply the front and rear brakes properly so the front contact patch isn't immediately overwhelmed (because of weight transfer) and causes a front tire skid. Remember that if you don't have ABS, never release the rear brake at the sign of a rear skid and DO release the front brake and immediately re-apply at the sign of a front skid. If the bike starts to yaw (step out) steer (while braking) into the yaw so the bike doesn't switch ends. Bear in mind that steering into the yaw is really steering into the direction you were previously going. First on a closed course and when you become proficient at least once on your daily ride when you have no one behind you. Emergency Braking technique is a lot like fighting; every man thinks he can do it and will rise to the occasion when the times comes. Without proper training and practice that usually isn't the case.
Make sure your machine is in good shape. See to it that brake pads are good and the fluid isn't contaminated with moisture. A couple good hard brake applications on the freeway to almost zero mph can heat the fluid to a point where the moisture in brake fluid turns to steam and you get a collapsed pedal or lever. This can happen on ANY bike including a bike with ABS.
I have ABS and non ABS motorcycles. I can ride either of them safely because I work at it.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 2,899
Likes: 126
From: Chandler, Arizona
That or, "it happens to everyone eventually."
You're right.
There's one heck of a discussion (several pages) with that very video. It's labeled ABS is Crazy or something like that. By this time I'd say it's degraded to "oh yeah?" and "says you!".
Here it is. Just scroll to the top.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/off-t...l#post14976240
There's one heck of a discussion (several pages) with that very video. It's labeled ABS is Crazy or something like that. By this time I'd say it's degraded to "oh yeah?" and "says you!".
Here it is. Just scroll to the top.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/off-t...l#post14976240
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 15,916
Likes: 6,987
From: Sandy Eggo's North County
Here's what I posted over there:
The rider locked the rear brake and released it when the rear of the machine stepped out to the right. The instant he released the rear brake the rear wheel snapped back in line with the front and high sided him.
Watch the video several times and you'll see the rear skid mark stop; the rear wheel moves left to get in line with the front and the rear of the bike lifts. It's a classic braking high side. My guess is he used very little, if any, front brake. Here's the truly sad part; he probably doesn't know what really happened. That means it'll happen again.
Let's be clear about something; ABS prevents the wheels from skidding by releasing the brakes. Improper braking technique and the engagement of ABS can still put you into the back of a car because braking distance is increased as compared to good threshold braking where the wheels don't lose traction.
If you want to decrease stopping distance (there is a difference between braking distance and stopping distance) on any motorcycle these few things may help:
Pay f*cking attention. At 50 mph you travel roughly 75 feet per second. Looking away for even one second is 75 feet of road you haven't seen. Add reaction time to what you've perceived as a threat and the distance gets even greater. The average car is 14 feet long; 75 feet is 5 car lengths. Again, you can add half again that much distance if you have perfect reaction time; more if you don't.
Maintain a safe following distance. I would consider 2 seconds a bare minimum and ultimately that guy had that, he just used it up because he wasn't paying attention. Make allowances for pavement conditions (wet/dry etc) and travel speed.
Practice Emergency Braking as often as you can. Learn to apply the front and rear brakes properly so the front contact patch isn't immediately overwhelmed (because of weight transfer) and causes a front tire skid. Remember that if you don't have ABS, never release the rear brake at the sign of a rear skid and DO release the front brake and immediately re-apply at the sign of a front skid. If the bike starts to yaw (step out) steer (while braking) into the yaw so the bike doesn't switch ends. Bear in mind that steering into the yaw is really steering into the direction you were previously going. First on a closed course and when you become proficient at least once on your daily ride when you have no one behind you. Emergency Braking technique is a lot like fighting; every man thinks he can do it and will rise to the occasion when the times comes. Without proper training and practice that usually isn't the case.
Make sure your machine is in good shape. See to it that brake pads are good and the fluid isn't contaminated with moisture. A couple good hard brake applications on the freeway to almost zero mph can heat the fluid to a point where the moisture in brake fluid turns to steam and you get a collapsed pedal or lever. This can happen on ANY bike including a bike with ABS.
I have ABS and non ABS motorcycles. I can ride either of them safely because I work at it.
The rider locked the rear brake and released it when the rear of the machine stepped out to the right. The instant he released the rear brake the rear wheel snapped back in line with the front and high sided him.
Watch the video several times and you'll see the rear skid mark stop; the rear wheel moves left to get in line with the front and the rear of the bike lifts. It's a classic braking high side. My guess is he used very little, if any, front brake. Here's the truly sad part; he probably doesn't know what really happened. That means it'll happen again.
Let's be clear about something; ABS prevents the wheels from skidding by releasing the brakes. Improper braking technique and the engagement of ABS can still put you into the back of a car because braking distance is increased as compared to good threshold braking where the wheels don't lose traction.
If you want to decrease stopping distance (there is a difference between braking distance and stopping distance) on any motorcycle these few things may help:
Pay f*cking attention. At 50 mph you travel roughly 75 feet per second. Looking away for even one second is 75 feet of road you haven't seen. Add reaction time to what you've perceived as a threat and the distance gets even greater. The average car is 14 feet long; 75 feet is 5 car lengths. Again, you can add half again that much distance if you have perfect reaction time; more if you don't.
Maintain a safe following distance. I would consider 2 seconds a bare minimum and ultimately that guy had that, he just used it up because he wasn't paying attention. Make allowances for pavement conditions (wet/dry etc) and travel speed.
Practice Emergency Braking as often as you can. Learn to apply the front and rear brakes properly so the front contact patch isn't immediately overwhelmed (because of weight transfer) and causes a front tire skid. Remember that if you don't have ABS, never release the rear brake at the sign of a rear skid and DO release the front brake and immediately re-apply at the sign of a front skid. If the bike starts to yaw (step out) steer (while braking) into the yaw so the bike doesn't switch ends. Bear in mind that steering into the yaw is really steering into the direction you were previously going. First on a closed course and when you become proficient at least once on your daily ride when you have no one behind you. Emergency Braking technique is a lot like fighting; every man thinks he can do it and will rise to the occasion when the times comes. Without proper training and practice that usually isn't the case.
Make sure your machine is in good shape. See to it that brake pads are good and the fluid isn't contaminated with moisture. A couple good hard brake applications on the freeway to almost zero mph can heat the fluid to a point where the moisture in brake fluid turns to steam and you get a collapsed pedal or lever. This can happen on ANY bike including a bike with ABS.
I have ABS and non ABS motorcycles. I can ride either of them safely because I work at it.
It's rare when someone actually understands ABS and it's limitations. ABS makes for l o n g e r stops.
Practice and training, lead to skills development.
An accomplished motorcyclist, has these skills, but rarely needs them...
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 15,916
Likes: 6,987
From: Sandy Eggo's North County
Oh yeah, one more thing~
Those of you that wear "beanie" type helmets.
Betcha didn't think your motorcycle could ever end up on your head now did ya? When bikes tumble, they can do anything...
Those of you that wear "beanie" type helmets.
Betcha didn't think your motorcycle could ever end up on your head now did ya? When bikes tumble, they can do anything...
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 13,402
Likes: 941
From: Illinois
What hardrider1 said. Plus the bike slapped him twice for being incompetent.
Speed, following distance, lack of focus and not knowing how to do emergency braking. That will get you every time.
Speed, following distance, lack of focus and not knowing how to do emergency braking. That will get you every time.
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 11,814
Likes: 5,120
From: SW Ohio
It's a safety issue not a repost of a six legged calf. Nothing to be sorry for, honestly we need to talk about stuff like this more often. I may have sent the wrong message when I posted the link. I thought you might like to see it as well.